Y Llywydd: Prynhawn da. Galwaf Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru i drefn.

The Presiding Officer: Prynhawn da. I call the National Assembly for Wales to order.

Cwestiynau i’r Prif Weinidog
Questions to the First Minister

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n rhaid i awdurdodau lleol gynnal asesiad o’r effaith y byddai agor unrhyw siop fawr newydd y tu allan i’r dref yn ei chael ar ganol y dref. Felly, byddwn yn erfyn ar unrhyw awdurdod lleol i edrych ar hynny cyn gwneud penderfyniad ar agor siop fawr newydd ar gyrion unrhyw dref yng Nghymru.

The First Minister: Local authorities must conduct assessments of the impact that large retailers could have on town centres in opening out-of-town stores. Therefore, I would urge local authorities to consider that point before taking a decision on the opening of new out-of-town stores in Wales.

Kenneth Skates: First Minister, the concept of a knowledge corridor along the A55 is something that politicians, the private sector, the public sector, social enterprises and education institutions have long been working to achieve. What effort is the Welsh Government making to realise this and to boost value-added industries in north Wales?

Kenneth Skates: Brif Weinidog, mae’r cysyniad o goridor gwybodaeth ar hyd yr A55 yn rhywbeth y mae gwleidyddion, y sector preifat, y sector cyhoeddus, mentrau cymdeithasol a sefydliadau addysg wedi gweithio i’w gyflawni ers cryn amser. Pa ymdrech y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn ei wneud i wireddu hyn ac i hybu diwydiannau gwerth ychwanegol yng ngogledd Cymru?

The First Minister: There will be two enterprise zones in the north: one in Holyhead, which will concentrate on energy-related industries, and another on Deeside, which will support advanced manufacturing. We remain open to other proposals for enterprise zones. Other projects have been developed with institutions such as Glyndŵr University’s Technium OpTIC, and, of course, we have also supported Glyndŵr University, Airbus and Deeside College to deliver the advanced composite training and development centre in Broughton.

Y Prif Weinidog: Bydd dwy ardal fenter yn y gogledd: un yng Nghaergybi, a fydd yn canolbwyntio ar ddiwydiannau sy’n ymwneud ag ynni, ac un arall ar Lannau Dyfrdwy, a fydd yn cefnogi gweithgynhyrchu uwch. Rydym yn parhau i fod yn agored i gynigion eraill ar gyfer ardaloedd menter. Datblygwyd prosiectau eraill gyda sefydliadau megis Technium OpTIC Prifysgol Glyndŵr ac, wrth gwrs, yr ydym hefyd wedi cefnogi Prifysgol Glyndŵr, Airbus a Choleg Glannau Dyfrdwy i ddarparu’r ganolfan hyfforddi a datblygu cyfansawdd uwch ym Mrychdyn.

Mark Isherwood: As Members will know, the latest research from the Forum of Private Business has said that more must be done to help small firms tackle high business costs. How, therefore, do you respond to the report, which I think came out at a UK-level last week, which stated that Newstart shops on our high streets should receive the same business rates treatment as charity shops?

Mark Isherwood: Fel y bydd Aelodau yn gwybod, mae’r ymchwil diweddaraf gan y fforwm busnes preifat wedi dweud bod yn rhaid gwneud mwy i helpu cwmnïau bach i fynd i’r afael â chostau busnes uchel. Sut, felly, ydych yn ymateb i’r adroddiad, a ddaeth allan, rwy’n credu, ar lefel y Deyrnas Unedig yr wythnos ddiwethaf, a nododd fod siopau sy’n dechrau o’r newydd ar y stryd fawr yn cael yr un driniaeth o ran ardrethi busnes â siopau elusen?

The First Minister: We know that there is a cost to any change in the business rates regime. It is crucial that new retail businesses are viable. That is the test of ensuring that the business has a future. We already have a generous rate relief scheme for small businesses, and we are committed to continuing with that until September 2012. A review of business rates relief is also taking place.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gwyddom fod cost i unrhyw newid yn y gyfundrefn ardrethi busnes. Mae’n hanfodol bod busnesau manwerthu newydd yn hyfyw. Dyna’r prawf o sicrhau bod dyfodol i’r busnes. Mae gennym eisoes gynllun rhyddhad ardrethi hael ar gyfer busnesau bach, ac yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i barhau â hynny tan fis Medi 2012. Mae adolygiad o’r rhyddhad ardrethi busnes yn digwydd hefyd.

Aled Roberts: Hoffwn ategu datganiad Llyr Huws Gruffydd: mae nifer o drefi yn y gogledd sydd o dan warchae gan archfarchnadoedd. Credaf y dylai’r Llywodraeth ystyried y posibilrwydd o gryfhau’r sefyllfa bresennol o ran y Bil cynllunio a gaiff ei osod gerbron y Cynulliad yn ystod y flwyddyn nesaf.

Aled Roberts: I endorse the point made by Llyr Huws Gruffydd: many towns in north Wales are under siege from supermarkets. I believe that the Government should consider the possibility of strengthening the current position through the planning Bill that will be brought before the Assembly during the next year.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid Bil yw’r peth i’w ddefnyddio, ond canllawiau cynllunio. Penderfyniad i’w wneud gan awdurdodau lleol yw hwn, gan mai hwy sy’n rhoi caniatâd i gwmni adeiladu archfarchnad.

The First Minister: A Bill would not be the appropriate tool in this instance, but rather planning guidance. This is a decision for local authorities, as it is they who give retailers permission to build supermarkets.

Cwestiynau Heb Rybudd gan Arweinwyr y Pleidiau

Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

The Leader of Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones): First Minister, Members across the Chamber have agreed that bringing forward capital spending is one way to stimulate the economy. Given the dire economic news, particularly the gross domestic product figures published today and the recent figures regarding the number of jobless young people, it is about time that we had some capital projects from this Government. Therefore, why, in three areas—namely health, education and transport—are all of your capital projects on hold?

Arweinydd Plaid Cymru (Ieuan Wyn Jones): Brif Weinidog, mae Aelodau ar draws y Siambr wedi cytuno fod dwyn ymlaen wariant cyfalaf yn un ffordd i ysgogi’r economi. O ystyried y newyddion economaidd enbyd, yn enwedig y ffigurau cynnyrch mewnwladol crynswth a gyhoeddwyd heddiw a’r ffigurau diweddar ynghylch nifer y bobl ifanc ddi-waith, mae’n hen bryd inni gael rhai prosiectau cyfalaf o’r Llywodraeth hon. Felly, pam, mewn tair ardal—sef iechyd, addysg a thrafnidiaeth—y mae eich holl brosiectau cyfalaf wedi’u hoedi?

The First Minister: All capital projects are not on hold. It is simply not the case in relation to health capital projects. There are many health capital projects that are still moving forward. It is also the case, as the leader of Plaid Cymru knows, that discussions are taking place between the parties as to how the £38.9 million consequential that we received recently might be used to stimulate the economy in the future.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid yw’r holl brosiectau cyfalaf wedi’u hoedi. Nid yw hynny’n wir mewn perthynas â phrosiectau cyfalaf iechyd. Mae yna lawer o brosiectau cyfalaf iechyd sydd yn dal i symud ymlaen. Mae hefyd yn wir, fel y gŵyr arweinydd Plaid Cymru, bod trafodaethau yn digwydd rhwng y pleidiau ynghylch sut y gellid defnyddio’r £38.9 miliwn ganlyniadol a gawsom yn ddiweddar i ysgogi’r economi yn y dyfodol.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: It is obvious, First Minister, that you have not read the evidence given by your Ministers to each committee over the last few weeks. I will tell you what the Minister for Health and Social Services told the committee. She said that decisions on strategic healthcare capital expenditure are on hold while healthcare service plans are being developed. Those were her words. The Minister for Local Government and Communities told his committee that no transport projects will be announced because he is reprioritising all of the schemes. The Minister for Education and Skills appeared before his committee and the only announcements he made were those that had already been made by the previous Government in March 2011. Can you name one new capital project that has started since your election?

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Mae’n amlwg, Brif Weinidog, nad ydych wedi darllen y dystiolaeth a roddwyd gan eich Gweinidogion i bob pwyllgor dros yr ychydig wythnosau diwethaf. Dywedaf wrthych beth y dywedodd y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wrth y pwyllgor. Dywedodd fod penderfyniadau ar wariant cyfalaf gofal iechyd strategol wedi’u hoedi tra bod cynlluniau gwasanaeth gofal iechyd yn cael eu datblygu. Dyna oedd ei geiriau. Dywedodd y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau wrth ei bwyllgor na fyddai’n cyhoeddi unrhyw brosiectau trafnidiaeth oherwydd ei fod yn ail-flaenoriaethu’r holl gynlluniau. Ymddangosodd y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau gerbron ei bwyllgor a’r unig gyhoeddiadau a wnaeth oedd y rheiny a oedd eisoes wedi’u gwneud gan y Llywodraeth flaenorol ym mis Mawrth 2011. A allwch enwi un prosiect cyfalaf newydd sydd wedi dechrau ers eich etholiad?

The First Minister: There are substantial capital projects that are continuing, particularly in the field of health. We are committed to continuing with substantial capital projects, even as we see our budgets being squeezed by 40 per cent over the next three years. That much is correct. To suggest that all capital projects are on hold is simply not true.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ceir prosiectau cyfalaf sylweddol yn parhau, yn enwedig ym maes iechyd. Yr ydym wedi ymrwymo i barhau â phrosiectau cyfalaf sylweddol, hyd yn oed wrth i ni weld ein cyllidebau’n cael eu gwasgu gan 40 y cant dros y tair blynedd nesaf. Mae hynny’n gywir. Mae awgrymu bod yr holl brosiectau cyfalaf wedi’u hoedi, yn syml iawn, yn anghywir.

Ieuan Wyn Jones: You obviously did not listen to my question. I asked whether there are any new capital projects being brought forward. You have been unable to give me a single example of a capital project that your Government has announced since May. I challenge you to tell me whether such an announcement has been made. Do you not accept that your delay in bringing forward capital projects is undermining your case in discussing this issue with the UK Government? If you are asking it to bring forward capital expenditure, it could turn around and say, ‘You haven’t started a single capital project since you were re-elected First Minister’. Is it not time that you got a grip on this and started to get some money out of the door?

Ieuan Wyn Jones: Mae’n amlwg na wrandawsoch ar fy nghwestiwn. Yr wyf yn gofyn a oes unrhyw brosiectau cyfalaf newydd yn cael eu dwyn ymlaen. Nid ydych wedi gallu rhoi i mi un enghraifft o brosiect cyfalaf y mae eich Llywodraeth wedi’i gyhoeddi ers mis Mai. Fe’ch heriaf i ddweud wrthyf a wnaed cyhoeddiad o’r fath. A ydych yn derbyn bod eich oedi wrth gyflwyno prosiectau cyfalaf yn tanseilio eich achos o ran trafod y mater hwn gyda Llywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig? Os ydych yn gofyn iddi ddwyn gwariant cyfalaf ymlaen, gallai droi a dweud, ‘Nid ydych wedi dechrau un prosiect cyfalaf ers i chi gael eich ail-ethol yn Brif Weinidog Cymru’. Onid yw’n amser i chi fynd i’r afael â hyn a dechrau cael rhywfaint o arian allan o’r drws?

The First Minister: There are plenty of capital projects that we would like to take forward if we had the money to do it; that is the entire point. As the leader of Plaid Cymru knows full well, the £38.9 million that I mentioned can be used for capital projects, which are the subject of discussion on a cross-party basis. As part of those discussions, suggestions have been made as to how that money can be used, and he will discover that in the course of the negotiations.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae digon o brosiectau cyfalaf yr hoffem symud ymlaen â hwy pe bai gennym yr arian i wneud hynny; dyna’r holl bwynt. Fel y mae arweinydd Plaid Cymru yn ei wybod yn iawn, gellir defnyddio’r £38.9 miliwn y soniais amdano ar gyfer prosiectau cyfalaf, sy’n destun trafodaeth yn drawsbleidiol. Fel rhan o’r trafodaethau hynny, mae awgrymiadau wedi’u gwneud ynglŷn â sut y gellir defnyddio’r arian hwnnw, a bydd ef yn darganfod hynny yn ystod y trafodaethau.

The Leader of the Opposition (Andrew R.T. Davies): First Minister, one of the ways in which the Government is able to help economic activity is through its procurement processes. Do you accept the criticism from the Federation of Small Businesses that there is nothing in the economic renewal programme to assist economic development and procurement from the Government via the public procurement process?

Arweinydd yr Wrthblaid (Andrew R.T. Davies): Brif Weinidog, un o’r ffyrdd y gall y Llywodraeth helpu gweithgarwch economaidd yw drwy brosesau caffael. A ydych yn derbyn y feirniadaeth gan y Ffederasiwn Busnesau Bach nad oes dim yn y rhaglen adnewyddu economaidd i gynorthwyo datblygu economaidd a chaffael gan y Llywodraeth drwy broses gaffael gyhoeddus?

The First Minister: No, I do not.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nac ydwyf.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Given that its figures, along with your figures, state that it costs £20 million for many businesses just to get on the starting blocks for the public sector procurement process, do you not think that much more could be done by the Government to assist companies to be in a position to bid for public procurement contracts? The £20 million is your figure of what it costs businesses to reach the pre-qualification round for public procurement contracts.

Andrew R.T. Davies: O gofio bod ei ffigurau, ynghyd â’ch ffigurau chi, yn datgan ei fod yn costio £20 miliwn i lawer o fusnesau i gyrraedd y man cychwyn yn unig o ran proses gaffael y sector cyhoeddus, onid ydych yn credu y gall y Llywodraeth wneud llawer mwy i helpu cwmnïau i fod mewn sefyllfa i wneud cais am gontractau caffael cyhoeddus? Eich ffigur chi yw £20 miliwn o ran y gost i fusnesau i gyrraedd y rownd cyn-gymhwyso ar gyfer contractau caffael cyhoeddus.

The First Minister: I am not sure where the figure of £20 million per business comes from in terms of getting into pre-qualification contracts. We will continue to help small businesses to be in a position to bid for contracts. The procurement initiative has helped many small businesses over the years to bid for the larger contracts, given the fact that they were too small to bid for them without the help that they were given at the time. It was particularly true in the food industry, where, for example, Welsh beef was provided to the majority of Welsh NHS trusts as a result of the help that was given with procurement.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid wyf yn siŵr o le y daw’r ffigur o £20 miliwn fesul busnes o ran cael contractau cyn-gymhwyso. Byddwn yn parhau i helpu busnesau bach i fod mewn sefyllfa i gynnig am gontractau. Mae’r fenter gaffael wedi helpu llawer o fusnesau bach dros y blynyddoedd i wneud cais am y contractau mwy o faint, o ystyried y ffaith eu bod yn rhy fach i wneud cais amdanynt heb y cymorth a roddwyd iddynt ar y pryd. Roedd yn arbennig o wir yn y diwydiant bwyd, lle, er enghraifft, darparwyd cig eidion Cymru i ran fwyaf o ymddiriedolaethau GIG Cymru o ganlyniad i’r cymorth a roddwyd gyda chaffael.

Andrew R.T. Davies: I did not say ‘per business’, First Minister; I said ‘businesses’, and that it costs businesses £20 million. The Institute of Directors has expressed intense frustration regarding procurement, and the Confederation of British Industry says that Wales has a growing reputation as one of the most difficult places in the United Kingdom for public procurement. Your own Government’s document says that, with some notable exceptions, the Welsh public sector does not engage particularly well with the supply base. In these times of economic worries, do you not think that the Government could do more to facilitate greater access to public procurement contracts for many small and medium-sized businesses in Wales, considering the pre-qualifying costs to business, the quotes from business representatives across Wales and your Government’s observations on the initiatives that it has brought forward?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Ni ddywedais ‘fesul busnes’, Brif Weinidog; dywedais ‘busnesau’, a’i fod yn costio busnesau £20 miliwn. Mae Sefydliad y Cyfarwyddwyr wedi mynegi rhwystredigaeth ddwys ynghylch caffael, ac y mae Cydffederasiwn Diwydiant Prydain yn dweud bod gan Gymru enw cynyddol fel un o’r lleoedd mwyaf anodd yn y Deyrnas Unedig ar gyfer caffael cyhoeddus. Dywed dogfen eich Llywodraeth eich hun, gyda rhai eithriadau nodedig, nad yw sector cyhoeddus Cymru yn ymgysylltu â’r sylfaen cyflenwi yn arbennig o dda. Yn yr amseroedd hyn o bryderon economaidd, a gredwch y gallai’r Llywodraeth wneud mwy i hwyluso gwell mynediad at gontractau caffael cyhoeddus i lawer o fusnesau bach a chanolig yng Nghymru, o ystyried y costau cyn-gymhwyso i fusnes, y dyfyniadau o gynrychiolwyr busnes ar draws Cymru a sylwadau eich Llywodraeth ar y mentrau y mae wedi’u dwyn ymlaen?

The First Minister: As I said, there are many good examples of how procurement has been improved in terms of the access that small and medium-sized enterprises are able to have to those contracts, and we will continue to work with all parts of the public sector to make sure that access to procurement improves. For example, some local authorities have a very good record on procuring locally, and it is important that the other local authorities learn from them.

Y Prif Weinidog: Fel y dywedais, ceir llawer o enghreifftiau da o sut y mae caffael wedi gwella o ran y mynediad y mae mentrau bach a chanolig yn gallu ei gael at y contractau hynny, a byddwn yn parhau i weithio gyda phob rhan o’r sector cyhoeddus i sicrhau bod mynediad at gaffael yn gwella. Er enghraifft, mae gan rai awdurdodau lleol hanes da iawn ar gaffael yn lleol, ac y mae’n bwysig bod awdurdodau lleol eraill yn dysgu oddi wrthynt.

The Leader of the Welsh Liberal Democrats (Kirsty Williams): First Minister, at last week’s Health and Social Care Committee, the Minister for Health and Social Services stated that a whole series of investment projects, which were announced just before May’s election, were now on stop. Which one of those projects is at risk?

Arweinydd Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru (Kirsty Williams): Brif Weinidog, yn y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol yr wythnos ddiwethaf, dywedodd y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol bod cyfres gyfan o brosiectau buddsoddi, a gyhoeddwyd ychydig cyn yr etholiad, bellach ar stop. Pa un o’r prosiectau hynny sydd mewn perygl?

The First Minister: There are no projects at risk. The projects that have been announced are being taken forward. Some projects will need to be re-examined, but most of the projects that have been announced already will be taken forward.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid oes unrhyw brosiect mewn perygl. Mae’r prosiectau sydd wedi’u cyhoeddi yn cael eu datblygu. Bydd angen ail-edrych ar rai prosiectau, ond bydd y rhan fwyaf o’r prosiectau sydd wedi’u cyhoeddi eisoes yn bwrw ymlaen.

Kirsty Williams: I would be interested to hear, therefore, which of those projects announced just prior to the election that your Government intends to re-examine. The former Minister for Health and Social Services, in making the announcement of an extra £2 million-worth of capital funding, said that you were maintaining your investment in the health service in cash terms over the next three years, despite the impact of the UK Government’s cuts to the Welsh budget. Was she misleading the Welsh public prior to the election in making that statement, or will you guarantee that every one of those projects announced just weeks before the Assembly election will actually be delivered?

Kirsty Williams: Byddai diddordeb gennyf glywed, felly, pa un o’r prosiectau hynny, a gyhoeddwyd cyn yr etholiad, y mae eich Llywodraeth yn bwriadu edrych arnynt eto. Dywedodd y cyn Weinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, wrth wneud cyhoeddiad o werth £2 miliwn ychwanegol o gyllid cyfalaf, eich bod yn cynnal eich buddsoddiad yn y gwasanaeth iechyd mewn termau arian parod dros y tair blynedd nesaf, er gwaethaf effaith toriadau Llywodraeth y DU i gyllideb Cymru. A oedd hi’n camarwain cyhoedd Cymru cyn yr etholiad wrth wneud y datganiad hwnnw, neu a wnewch chi warantu bod pob un o’r prosiectau hynny, a gyhoeddwyd ychydig wythnosau cyn etholiad y Cynulliad, yn cael eu cyflawni mewn gwirionedd?

1.45 p.m.

The First Minister: It is not our intention to stop any projects in the health service. I have said several times in the Chamber that we are committed to continuing with the capital programme, because we know how important it is for the people of Wales. Contrast that with the substantial reduction in funding that is occurring under the Conservatives and Lib Dems across the border.

Y Prif Weinidog: Nid yw’n fwriad gennym i atal unrhyw brosiectau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Yr wyf wedi dweud sawl gwaith yn y Siambr ein bod yn ymroddedig i barhau â’r rhaglen gyfalaf, gan ein bod yn gwybod pa mor bwysig yw hi i bobl Cymru. Cyferbynnwch hynny â’r gostyngiad sylweddol mewn cyllid sy’n digwydd o dan y Ceidwadwyr a’r Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol ar draws y ffin.

Kirsty Williams: First Minister, I urge you to read the transcript of the Health and Social Care Committee meeting to find out exactly what the Minister for Health and Social Services said. You would also note that a senior official in the health department said:

Kirsty Williams: Brif Weinidog, yr wyf yn eich annog i ddarllen trawsgrifiad cyfarfod y Pwyllgor Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol i gael gwybod yn union yr hyn a ddywedodd y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol. Byddech hefyd yn nodi bod uwch-swyddog yn yr adran iechyd wedi dweud:

‘I suspect that it is very unlikely that the whole plan will be torn up’.

Yr wyf yn amau ei bod yn annhebygol iawn y bydd y cynllun cyfan yn cael ei rwygo i fyny.

People will not find that reassuring. Which part of the plan is going to be torn up? Will it be the investment in Bronglais General Hospital, the investment in the Royal Gwent Hospital in Newport, or the investments announced just before the election in Morriston Hospital and in the critical care unit in Torfaen? In all of those communities the Labour Party promised that there would be delivery on those projects. Will you commit here and now that each of those projects will go ahead?

Ni fydd hynny yn calonogi pobl. Pa ran o’r cynllun sy’n mynd i gael ei rwygo i fyny? Ai’r buddsoddiad yn Ysbyty Cyffredinol Bronglais, y buddsoddiad yn Ysbyty Brenhinol Gwent yng Nghasnewydd, neu’r buddsoddiadau a gyhoeddwyd ychydig cyn yr etholiad yn Ysbyty Treforys ac yn yr uned gofal critigol yn Nhor-faen? Yn yr holl gymunedau hynny addawodd y Blaid Lafur y byddai’r prosiectau hynny yn cael eu darparu. A wnewch chi ymrwymo yn y fan a’r lle yr aiff pob un o’r prosiectau hynny yn eu blaen?

The First Minister: None of those projects are scheduled to be stopped in any way. We recognise how important it is that we see capital investment in the health service. We stand by what we said before the election—unlike your party before the general election, which promised all manner of things and then completely caved in.

Y Prif Weinidog: Ni threfnwyd i’r un o’r prosiectau hynny gael ei stopio mewn unrhyw ffordd. Yr ydym yn cydnabod pa mor bwysig yw hi ein bod yn gweld buddsoddi cyfalaf yn y gwasanaeth iechyd. Yr ydym yn glynu wrth yr hyn a ddywedasom cyn yr etholiad—yn wahanol i’ch plaid chi cyn yr etholiad cyffredinol, a addawodd bob math o bethau ac yna a ildiodd yn llwyr.

The First Minister: Public sector organisations in Wales, including the Government, publicly support Welsh credit unions. We know that they provide a tremendous service for many individuals and communities that would otherwise have no access to affordable credit.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae sefydliadau’r sector cyhoeddus yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys y Llywodraeth, yn cefnogi undebau credyd yng Nghymru ar goedd. Gwyddom eu bod yn darparu gwasanaeth gwych i lawer o unigolion a chymunedau na fyddent fel arall yn cael unrhyw fynediad at gredyd fforddiadwy.

Mark Drakeford: Since you last answered questions here, International Credit Union Day has been celebrated in many different parts of Wales. Part of those celebrations was to draw more people into membership of credit unions, especially at a time when access to fair and affordable credit is ever more important. Public sector organisations have a leading role to play in extending that opportunity to their workers. They should be encouraged to offer that facility through payroll deductions and so on. Will you encourage them to do those small but important things that they are able to do, such as advertising, encouraging and promoting credit union membership among their employees?

Mark Drakeford: Ers ichi ateb cwestiynau yma ddiwethaf, mae Diwrnod Rhyngwladol Undebau Credyd wedi cael ei ddathlu mewn llawer i wahanol gwmwd yng Nghymru. Rhan o’r dathliadau hynny oedd denu mwy o bobl at aelodaeth undeb credyd, yn enwedig ar adeg pan fo mynediad at gredyd teg a fforddiadwy yn fwyfwy pwysig. Mae gan sefydliadau yn y sector cyhoeddus rôl arweiniol i’w chwarae wrth ymestyn y cyfle hwnnw i’w gweithwyr. Dylid eu hannog i gynnig y cyfleuster hwnnw drwy ddidyniadau cyflogres ac yn y blaen. A fyddwch yn eu hannog i wneud y pethau bychain ond pwysig y gallant eu gwneud, fel hysbysebu, annog a hyrwyddo aelodaeth undeb credyd ymhlith eu gweithwyr?

The First Minister: Trade unions have excellent networks and many employers are moving forward with increasing credit union membership among their employees. We have looked to support those initiatives. We have worked with Wales Trades Union Congress to promote the work of credit unions through organised training events, union representatives and their networks.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae gan undebau llafur rwydweithiau rhagorol ac y mae llawer o gyflogwyr yn symud ymlaen gyda chynyddu aelodaeth undeb credyd ymhlith eu gweithwyr. Yr ydym wedi ceisio cefnogi’r mentrau hynny. Yr ydym wedi gweithio gyda Chyngres Undebau Llafur Cymru i hyrwyddo gwaith undebau credyd drwy ddigwyddiadau hyfforddiant wedi eu trefnu, cynrychiolwyr undeb a’u rhwydweithiau.

Nick Ramsay: First Minister, I concur with many of the comments made about the positive aspects of credit unions—I was not aware that there had been a credit union day; that was interesting to hear. My party, in advance of the election, said that we wanted to support credit unions through post offices, and that a far greater link could be fostered between post offices and credit unions that would be mutually beneficial. What is your Government doing to promote credit unions as well as to ensure that, in rural communities in particular, post offices play a far bigger role in supporting them?

Nick Ramsay: Brif Weinidog, yr wyf yn cytuno â llawer o’r sylwadau a wnaed am yr agweddau cadarnhaol ar undebau credyd— nid oeddwn yn ymwybodol y bu yna ddiwrnod undebau credyd; diddorol oedd clywed hynny. Cyn yr etholiad, dywedodd fy mhlaid ein bod am gefnogi undebau credyd drwy swyddfeydd post, ac y gellid meithrin llawer mwy o gyswllt rhwng swyddfeydd post ac undebau credyd a fyddai o fudd i’r ddwy ochr. Beth mae eich Llywodraeth yn ei wneud i hyrwyddo undebau credyd yn ogystal â sicrhau, mewn cymunedau gwledig yn arbennig, bod swyddfeydd post yn chwarae rôl llawer mwy yn eu cefnogi?

The First Minister: We have taken forward a number of initiatives to support credit unions. The Minister for Local Government and Communities wrote letters to leaders of local councils in August seeking their support to promote credit union membership using payroll deduction. We have actively supported credit unions to broaden their membership base by helping them to develop the range of services that they can offer, such as basic bank accounts and pre-payment debit cards.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym wedi datblygu nifer o fentrau i gefnogi undebau credyd. Ysgrifennodd y Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau lythyrau at arweinwyr cynghorau lleol ym mis Awst yn gofyn am eu cefnogaeth i hyrwyddo aelodaeth o undeb credyd drwy ddidynnu o’r gyflogres. Yr ydym wedi bwrw ati i gefnogi undebau credyd wrth iddynt ehangu eu sylfaen aelodaeth drwy eu helpu i ddatblygu’r ystod o wasanaethau y gallant eu cynnig, fel cyfrifon banc sylfaenol a chardiau debyd rhagdalu.

Lindsay Whittle: First Minister, with the greatest respect I do not accept that. The three-year action plan launched in December 2010 said that credit unions would achieve self-sustainability by 2013. How will this be achieved, because, as with most of this Government’s policies, you have not spelled it out? It is fine talk, but it is all talk and no action.

Lindsay Whittle: Brif Weinidog, gyda phob parch nid wyf yn derbyn hynny. Dywedodd y cynllun gweithredu tair blynedd a lansiwyd ym mis Rhagfyr 2010 y byddai undebau credyd yn hunan-gynaliadwy erbyn 2013. Sut y cyflawnir hyn, oherwydd, fel gyda’r rhan fwyaf o bolisïau’r Llywodraeth hon, nid ydych wedi manylu arno? Mae’n siarad aruchel, ond mae’n siarad wrth y pwys a byw wrth yr owns.

The First Minister: Really? Direct financial support from the Welsh Government and the European regional development fund to improve the longer term sustainability and financial viability of credit unions amounts to some £4.056 million over the next three years, which, to me, represents substantial investment and substantial action.

Y Prif Weinidog: Wir? Mae cymorth ariannol uniongyrchol gan Lywodraeth Cymru a chronfa datblygu rhanbarthol Ewrop i wella cynaliadwyedd tymor hwy a hyfywedd ariannol undebau credyd sydd yn dod i ryw £4.056 miliwn dros y tair blynedd nesaf, i mi, yn cynrychioli buddsoddi sylweddol a gweithredu sylweddol.

Peter Black: The Swansea credit union is currently working on developing a sharia or ethical loan product that it is hoping to introduce in its area and to roll out across Wales. However, to develop that product and get it to a stage where it can introduce it, it will need direct Government support. Would you consider a request from LASA Credit Union Ltd to provide some funding to get this product to the market?

Peter Black: Ar hyn o bryd, mae undeb credyd Abertawe yn gweithio ar ddatblygu cynnyrch benthyciad sharia neu foesegol y mae’n gobeithio ei gyflwyno yn ei ardal ac yna ledled Cymru. Fodd bynnag, er mwyn datblygu’r cynnyrch hwnnw a’i gael i sefyllfa lle y gellir ei gyflwyno, bydd arno angen gefnogaeth uniongyrchol y Llywodraeth. A fyddech yn ystyried cais gan Undeb Credyd LASA Cyf i ddarparu rhywfaint o arian i gael y cynnyrch hwn i’r farchnad?

The First Minister: We will consider any such request and give it due consideration once it is received.

Y Prif Weinidog: Byddwn ni yn ystyried unrhyw gais o’r fath ac yn rhoi ystyriaeth briodol iddo unwaith y’i cawn.

Jenny Rathbone: Cardiff credit union is experiencing difficulty recruiting companies and individuals from the private sector, which will include some of the lowest paid in the country. What can the Welsh Government do to ensure that credit unions are on offer to the people who most need them, preventing them from falling into the hands of loan sharks?

Jenny Rathbone: Mae undeb credyd Caerdydd yn cael anhawster recriwtio cwmnïau ac unigolion o’r sector preifat, a fydd yn cynnwys rhai sy’n cael eu talu lleiaf yn y wlad. Beth all Llywodraeth Cymru ei wneud i sicrhau bod undebau credyd yn cael eu cynnig i’r bobl sydd eu hangen fwyaf, gan eu hatal rhag disgyn i ddwylo benthycwyr arian didrwydded?

The First Minister: We provide business support to Welsh credit unions through the Social Investment Business. A key action for that over the next two years will be to raise the profile of credit unions so that more people are made aware that there are alternatives to high-cost lenders and the unregistered illegal money lenders that they sometimes see in their communities.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym yn darparu cymorth busnes i undebau credyd Cymru drwy’r Busnes Buddsoddiad Cymdeithasol. Cam gweithredu allweddol dros y ddwy flynedd nesaf fydd codi proffil undebau credyd fel bod mwy o bobl yn ymwybodol bod dewisiadau amgen i fenthycwyr cost uchel a benthycwyr arian anghofrestredig anghyfreithlon y maent weithiau’n eu gweld yn eu cymunedau.

Bethan Jenkins: A yw’r Llywodraeth wedi ystyried datblygu busnesau o gwmpas y ffordd ymylol benodol honno i’r dyfodol? Gan nad yw Port Talbot yn rhan o agenda ardaloedd menter y Llywodraeth, a oes cynlluniau eraill gennych er mwyn dod â mwy o swyddi i’r ardal ddiwydiannol hon lle ceir llawer o arbenigedd?

Bethan Jenkins: Has the Government considered developing businesses around that particular distributor road in the future? As Port Talbot is not part of the Government’s enterprise zone agenda, do you have any other plans to bring additional jobs to this industrialised area where there is a great deal of expertise?

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym eisiau gweld y ffordd newydd yn rhoi hwb i’r economi leol ac yn helpu wrth ddod â mwy o fusnesau i’r stad ddiwydiannol gyfagos.

The First Minister: We want to see the new road giving the local economy a boost and assisting in bringing more businesses to the nearby industrial estate.

William Powell: I am grateful for that answer. Since the Welsh Government acquired its compulsory purchase powers following the demise of the Land Authority for Wales, and subsequently the Welsh Development Agency, there has been a growing perception that compulsory purchase orders have been underexploited. This, combined with the relative risk aversion of local authorities in Wales, has had unfortunate consequences for many of our communities. Will the First Minister please confirm the readiness of the Government to work in partnership with local authorities to progress compulsory purchase where it is necessary to combat dereliction and promote regeneration?

William Powell: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am yr ateb hwnnw. Ers i Lywodraeth Cymru gael ei phwerau prynu gorfodol yn dilyn tranc Awdurdod Tir Cymru, ac wedi hynny Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, mae canfyddiad cynyddol wedi bod nad yw gorchmynion prynu gorfodol wedi cael eu harfer gymaint ag y gallent fod. Mae hyn, ynghyd â’r amharodrwydd cymharol i gymryd risg ar ran awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru, wedi cael canlyniadau anffodus mewn llawer o’n cymunedau. A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog gadarnhau parodrwydd y Llywodraeth i weithio mewn partneriaeth ag awdurdodau lleol i fwrw ymlaen â phrynu gorfodol lle bo angen er mwyn mynd i’r afael â diffeithdra ac er mwyn hybu adfywio?

The First Minister: Absolutely. I am not aware of any evidence that the powers are being underused in any way, but the powers exist for a reason—namely, to ensure that land is brought into public use for the benefit of the community.

Y Prif Weinidog: I’r carn. Nid wyf yn ymwybodol o unrhyw dystiolaeth bod y pwerau yn cael eu tanddefnyddio mewn unrhyw ffordd, ond mae’r pwerau yn bodoli am reswm—sef sicrhau bod tir yn cael ei ddwyn i ddefnydd cyhoeddus er budd y gymuned.

Janet Finch-Saunders: First Minister, these powers are indeed a useful tool in the box for local authorities to be able to take over dilapidated properties and various areas of land. Is it not a fact that this power lay better with the Welsh Development Agency, and that you have failed to empower local authorities to use it? Would you not agree, Minister, that it is no use having this tool without the resources to implement these purchases? What steps are you taking to ensure that these powers can and will be used effectively?

Janet Finch-Saunders: Brif Weinidog, mae’r pwerau hyn yn wir yn arf defnyddiol fel y medr awdurdodau lleol gymryd eiddo adfeiliedig a gwahanol ardaloedd o dir drosodd. Onid yw’n ffaith bod y pŵer hwn wedi gorwedd yn well gydag Awdurdod Datblygu Cymru, ac eich bod wedi methu â grymuso awdurdodau lleol i’w ddefnyddio? Oni fyddech yn cytuno, Weinidog, ei fod yn dda i ddim i gael yr arf hwn heb yr adnoddau i weithredu’r prynu hwn? Pa gamau ydych yn eu cymryd i sicrhau y gall ac y caiff y pwerau hyn eu defnyddio yn effeithiol?

The First Minister: Given that you have produced no evidence at all to support your argument, I have to disagree with you.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gan nad ydych wedi cynhyrchu unrhyw dystiolaeth o gwbl i gefnogi eich dadl, rhaid imi anghytuno â chi.

2.00 p.m.

Byron Davies: I visited the Community Transport Association at its base in Swansea this week and saw first-hand the excellent work that it does and the essential services that it provides up and down Wales. The Community Transport Association and its partners are essential to plug the gaps in the public transport network and deliver for the most vulnerable in society. Will you commit to ensuring that this sector is recognised in any future plans for public transport in Wales, because, without it, we will never have a fully integrated transport system?

Byron Davies: Ymwelais â’r Gymdeithas Cludiant Cymunedol yn ei ganolfan yn Abertawe’r wythnos hon a gwelais â’m llygaid fy hun y gwaith ardderchog y mae’n ei wneud a’r gwasanaethau hanfodol y mae’n eu darparu ar hyd a lled Cymru. Mae’r Gymdeithas Cludiant Gymunedol a’i phartneriaid yn hanfodol i lenwi’r bylchau yn y rhwydwaith trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus a darparu ar gyfer y rhai mwyaf bregus mewn cymdeithas. A wnewch chi ymrwymo i sicrhau bod y sector hwn yn cael ei gydnabod mewn unrhyw gynlluniau ar gyfer trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus yng Nghymru yn y dyfodol, oherwydd, hebddo, ni fydd gennym fyth system drafnidiaeth gwbl integredig?

The First Minister: Yes, and I spoke at a CTA event in Cefn Cribwr a week last Friday. Therefore, I am fully aware of the good work that it does.

Y Prif Weinidog: Gwnaf, a siaradais mewn digwyddiad CTA yng Nghefn Cribwr wythnos i ddydd Gwener diwethaf. Felly, yr wyf yn gwbl ymwybodol o’r gwaith da y mae’n ei wneud.

Elin Jones: A yw’n dderbyniol i swyddogion yn eich adran drafnidiaeth benderfynu newid amserlen gwasanaeth bws yr X40 rhwng Aberystwyth a Chaerfyrddin a diddymu pob un o’r 10 gwasanaeth y dydd drwy bentrefi Cribyn a Llanwnnen, a hynny heb unrhyw ymgynghoriad gyda thrigolion y ddau bentref? A yw hynny’n arfer da?

Elin Jones: Is it acceptable that officials in your department for transport should decide to change the timetable for the X40 bus service between Aberystwyth and Carmarthen and to abolish each of the 10 daily services through the villages of Cribyn and Llanwnnen, without consulting the residents of those villages? Is that good practice?

Y Prif Weinidog: Os yw hynny wedi digwydd, ysgrifennwch ataf ac fe fyddaf yn edrych ar hynny’n fanwl.

The First Minister: If that has happened, then write to me and I will undertake to look at that in detail.

Rebecca Evans: You will be aware of the long-running history of traffic congestion in Ammanford, which is making life very difficult for residents and is proving to be a stumbling block for the further economic regeneration of Ammanford and the Amman valley. Will the Welsh Government consider reviving plans for the second phase of the Ammanford distributor road?

Rebecca Evans: Byddwch yn ymwybodol o hanes hirfaith tagfeydd traffig yn Rhydaman, sy’n gwneud bywyd yn anodd iawn i drigolion ac yn profi i fod yn faen tramgwydd i adfywiad economaidd pellach Rhydaman a dyffryn Aman. A wnaiff Llywodraeth Cymru ystyried adfywio cynlluniau ar gyfer ail gam ffordd ddosbarthu Rhydaman?

The First Minister: What is now needed is for SWWITCH, the south-west Wales integrated transport consortium, to identify phase 2 of the distributor road as its priority and to include it in its bid for funding.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr hyn sydd ei angen yn awr yw i gonsortiwm cludiant integredig de-orllewin Cymru, SWWITCH, nodi cam 2 y ffordd ddosbarthu fel ei flaenoriaeth a’i gynnwys yn ei gais am gyllid.

Vaughan Gething: I am sure that you are aware that many Members across the Chamber agree and identify with the economic, social and environmental benefits that delivering high-quality and high-capacity integrated transport will bring to Wales. Can you provide an update on where the Welsh Government is with its proposal to secure the necessary investment from the Department for Transport to deliver electrification of the Valleys railway lines in Wales?

Vaughan Gething: Yr wyf yn siŵr eich bod yn ymwybodol bod llawer o Aelodau ar draws y Siambr yn cytuno ac yn uniaethu â’r manteision economaidd, cymdeithasol ac amgylcheddol y bydd darparu trafnidiaeth integredig o ansawdd uchel a cynhwysedd uchel yn dod â hwy i Gymru. A allwch chi roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ble y mae Llywodraeth Cymru arni gyda’i chynnig i sicrhau’r buddsoddiad angenrheidiol gan yr Adran Drafnidiaeth i drydaneiddio rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd yng Nghymru?

The First Minister: As I mentioned in my earlier answer, we are working with the Department for Transport, and we hope that a business case will be prepared by the end of this year.

Y Prif Weinidog: Fel y soniais yn fy ateb cynharach, yr ydym yn gweithio gyda’r Adran Drafnidiaeth, a gobeithiwn y bydd achos busnes yn cael ei baratoi erbyn diwedd y flwyddyn hon.

Eluned Parrott: I would like the opportunity to show you at first hand the extent to which the Vale of Glamorgan’s potential as an economic hub is hampered by its poor transport links to the airport and the enterprise zone. I would also like the opportunity to show you some of the places in which we might be able to introduce cost-effective improvements. Will you and the responsible Ministers take me up on that offer?

Eluned Parrott: Hoffwn i gael y cyfle i ddangos i chi yn uniongyrchol y graddau y mae potensial Bro Morgannwg fel canolbwynt economaidd yn cael ei rwystro gan ei gysylltiadau trafnidiaeth gwael i’r maes awyr a’r ardal fenter. Hoffwn hefyd gael y cyfle i ddangos i chi rai o’r mannau lle y gallem gyflwyno gwelliannau cost-effeithiol. A wnewch chi a’r Gweinidogion sy’n gyfrifol dderbyn y cynnig hwnnw gennyf i?

The First Minister: I am grateful for the offer, but my friend and colleague Jane Hutt has shown me around many parts of the Vale over the years—in daylight, of course. [Laughter.] It is an area that I know very well—indeed, I was at the airport on Sunday picking up my family. I know those roads and the access issues very well, and we are looking at them. You should bear in mind that the Vale of Glamorgan railway line was opened by a Labour Minister. It is proving to be exceptionally important and effective, and we look to a time in the future when those trains can be made more frequent, as they travel to Bridgend and Cardiff.

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar am y cynnig, ond mae fy ffrind a chydweithiwr Jane Hutt wedi dangos sawl rhan o’r Fro imi dros y blynyddoedd—yng ngolau dydd, wrth gwrs. [Chwerthin.] Mae’n ardal yr wyf yn ei hadnabod yn dda iawn—yn wir, yr oeddwn yn y maes awyr ar ddydd Sul yn codi fy nheulu. Yr wyf yn adnabod y ffyrdd hynny a’r materion mynediad yn dda iawn, ac yr ydym yn edrych arnynt. Dylech gofio yr agorwyd rheilffordd Bro Morgannwg gan un o Weinidogion Llafur. Mae’n profi i fod yn eithriadol o bwysig ac effeithiol, ac yr ydym yn disgwyl adeg yn y dyfodol pan all y trenau hynny fod yn fwy aml, gan eu bod yn teithio i Ben-y-bont ar Ogwr a Chaerdydd.

Simon Thomas: Bydd y Prif Weinidog yn ymwybodol bod llawer o drigolion canolbarth Cymru yn gofidio ynglŷn â datblygiadau ynni adnewyddadwy. Fodd bynnag, mae rhai ohonom yn gweld cyfle i wella a hybu economi canolbarth Cymru drwy ddefnyddio technoleg ynni adnewyddadwy, a hynny drwy ddau ddull: yn gyntaf, drwy sicrhau bod trigolion lleol yn cael trydan a budd o’r datblygiadau ynni hyn, ac, yn ail, drwy sefydlu cronfa gyfoeth i ddosbarthu arian sy’n dod o’r cynlluniau hyn i’r economi yn ehangach. Pa gamau yr ydych yn eu cymryd, Brif Weinidog, i sicrhau bod yr amcanion hyn yn cael eu gwireddu yng nghanolbarth Cymru?

Simon Thomas: The First Minister will be aware that many residents in mid Wales are concerned about renewable energy developments. However, some of us see an opportunity to improve and boost the economy of mid Wales through the use of renewable energy technology, specifically by two means: first, by ensuring that local people get the electricity and the benefit of those developments, and, secondly, by establishing a wealth fund to distribute the funds accrued through these projects to the wider economy. What steps are you taking, First Minister, to ensure that these objectives are achieved in mid Wales?

Y Prif Weinidog: Yr ydym yn hybu awdurdodau lleol i ddefnyddio’r gyfraith er mwyn sicrhau bod cronfa gymunedol yn cael ei chreu ar gyfer prosiectau ynni adnewyddadwy sydd o dan 50 MW. Fodd bynnag, mae unrhyw beth uwchben hynny yn fater i Lywodraeth y Deyrnas Unedig. Mae llawer o gyfleoedd gennym yng Nghymru yn ymwneud ag ynni adnewyddadwy i greu swyddi yn y dyfodol.

The First Minister: We are encouraging local authorities to use the law to ensure that a community fund is created for renewable energy projects under 50 MW. However, anything above that is a matter for the UK Government. We have many opportunities in Wales in relation to renewable energy to create jobs for the future.

The First Minister: The Member clearly has no understanding of the way that Westminster works, because that is exactly what happens there. The point is that we have prioritised a number of Bills and have given timetables for them. Those Bills that are not yet timetabled in detail will be taken forward over the course of this Assembly. That is the normal practice in almost every legislature in the world, as far as I am aware.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’r glir nad oes gan yr Aelod unrhyw ddealltwriaeth o’r modd y mae San Steffan yn gweithio, oherwydd dyna’n union beth sy’n digwydd yno. Y pwynt yw ein bod wedi blaenoriaethu nifer o Filiau ac wedi rhoi amserlenni ar eu cyfer. Bydd y Biliau hynny sydd heb eu hamserlennu eto mewn manylder yn cael eu datblygu yn ystod y Cynulliad hwn. Dyna’r drefn arferol ym mron pob deddfwrfa yn y byd, hyd y gwn i.

Arglwydd Elis-Thomas: Hoffwn ddod yn ôl at y cwestiwn o ymgynghori, a gofyn i’r Prif Weinidog a yw’n cytuno y dylem fod yn manteisio ar bob math o ddull o ymgynghori yn y Cynulliad, nid yn unig fel pwyllgorau ond fel Llywodraeth. Dylem fod yn ymgynghori cyn deddfu ac yn ystod y broses ddeddfu, gan ddefnyddio’r holl ddulliau electronig posibl fel bod pobl Cymru’n gallu cyfranogi o’r broses. Ar ben hynny, a yw’n cytuno y dylem ymdrechu i ysgrifennu yn y ddwy iaith Ddeddfau yng Nghymru sydd dipyn bach yn fwy dealladwy na Deddfau’r Deyrnas Unedig ar hyn o bryd?

Lord Elis-Thomas: May I return to the issue of consultation and ask the First Minister whether he agrees that we should be taking advantage of all sorts of methods of consulting in the Assembly, not only as committees but as a Government? There should be pre-legislative consultation and consultation during the legislative process, using all electronic tools available so that the people of Wales can partake of the process. On top of that, does he agree that we should endeavour to write legislation in Wales in both languages that is a little more understandable than UK legislation at the moment?

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n bwysig dros ben bod y Biliau yr ydym yn eu cyflwyno yn eglur iawn, oherwydd mae problemau wedi bod yn San Steffan dros y blynyddoedd o ran hynny. Yr enghraifft sy’n cael ei rhoi’n fwy nag unrhyw un arall yw Deddf a gafodd ei phasio 20 mlynedd yn ôl erbyn hyn, sef Deddf Cŵn Peryglus 1991. Mae gwersi inni eu dysgu o San Steffan. Un wers o’r Ddeddf honno yw sicrhau bod eglurhad yn cael ei roi o’r geiriau sy’n cael eu defnyddio.

The First Minister: It is exceptionally important that the Bills that we introduce are very clear, because there have been problems with that in Westminster over the years. The example that is cited more often than any other is that of an Act that was passed some 20 years ago now, the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991. There are lessons for us to learn from Westminster. One lesson to be learnt from that Act is to ensure that a clear definition is given of the words used.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Brif Weinidog, mae setliad llywodraeth leol yn cynnwys toriad o 7.2 y cant mewn gwariant cyfalaf. Mae hynny’n cynrychioli tynnu rhyw £33 miliwn o economi Cymru. Ar ben hynny, mae’r ffigurau GDP ar gyfer y Deyrnas Unedig sydd wedi’u rhyddhau heddiw—nid oes gennym ffigurau ar gyfer Cymru, ac mae’n bosibl y byddwch yn teimlo y dylech wneud galwad i gael ffigurau i Gymru ar yr un pryd â ffigurau’r Deyrnas Unedig—yn dangos bod y sector adeiladu yn gwanhau drwy’r Deyrnas Unedig. Mae hynny’n effeithio ar economi Cymru. Mae gennych ymrwymiad, fel Llywodraeth, i raglen datblygu isadeiledd Cymru dros 10 mlynedd: rhywbeth yr ydych wedi’i fenthyg o gynllun adfywio Plaid Cymru fel y mae’n digwydd, ond yr ydym yn hapus iawn i chi ddefnyddio ein syniadau gorau, dim ond i chi eu gweithredu. O dderbyn ffigurau heddiw, sut yr ydych yn mynd i weithredu’r addewid yr ydych wedi ei wneud?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: First Minister, the local government settlement includes a cut of 7.2 per cent in capital spending. That means taking some £33 million out of Wales’s economy. In addition, the GDP figures for the United Kingdom released today—we have no figures for Wales, and you may feel that you should call for Welsh figures to be published at the same time as the UK figures—show that the construction industry is weakening right across the UK. That impacts upon the Welsh economy. As a Government, you are committed to a 10-year infrastructure development programme for Wales—something that you borrowed from Plaid Cymru, as it happens, but we are very happy for you to use our best ideas if that means that they are implemented. Given today’s figures, how are you going to implement the pledge that you have made?

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’n bosibl i lywodraeth leol fenthyg arian. Penderfyniad awdurdodau lleol yw gwneud hynny, ond mae ganddynt yr opsiwn. Safbwynt y Llywodraeth yw y dylai pwerau benthyg gael eu rhoi i Lywodraeth Cymru, a chredaf mai hynny yw safbwynt eich plaid chi hefyd. Bydd comisiwn Silk yn edrych ar y mater hwn. Mae sawl prosiect y gellid ei weithredu pe bai’r pwerau hynny gennym. Mae’n bwysig dros ben ein bod ni’n ystyried pob ffordd o sicrhau cyfalaf wrth adeiladu i’r dyfodol, ac edrych ar bob modd er mwyn sicrhau bod y cyfalaf hwnnw ar gael.

The First Minister: It is possible for local government to borrow money. That is a decision for local authorities, but they have that option. The Government’s position is that the Welsh Government should have borrowing powers, which I believe is also your party’s position. The Silk commission will look at that issue. There are a number of projects that could be implemented if we had those powers. It is very important to ensure that we consider all avenues for securing capital when building for the future, and that we look at every way of ensuring that capital funding is available.

2.15 p.m.

Rhaglen Cymunedau yn Gyntaf yn Abertawe

Communities First Programme in Swansea

12. Mike Hedges: A wnaiff y Prif Weinidog roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am ddyfodol rhaglen Cymunedau yn Gyntaf yn Abertawe. OAQ(4)0186(FM)

12. Mike Hedges: Will the First Minister provide an update on the future of the Communities First programme in Swansea. OAQ(4)0186(FM)

The First Minister: The consultation on the future of the Communities First programme has closed and the many responses received are now being considered. 

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae’r ymgynghoriad ar ddyfodol y rhaglen Cymunedau yn Gyntaf wedi cau ac mae’r nifer o ymatebion a dderbyniwyd yn cael eu hystyried erbyn hyn.

Mike Hedges: I am pleased that the Welsh Government is continuing with the Communities First programme, which helps some of the poorest communities in our society. Can the First Minister ensure that, when new clusters are set up, they do not cut across ward boundaries and that wards stay in one cluster rather than, as is currently being suggested in Swansea, Morriston being cut in two?

Mike Hedges: Yr wyf yn falch bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn parhau â’r rhaglen Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, sy’n helpu rhai o’r cymunedau tlotaf yn ein cymdeithas. A all y Prif Weinidog sicrhau, pan sefydlir clystyrau newydd, nad ydynt yn ymyrryd ar draws ffiniau ward a bod wardiau’n aros mewn un clwstwr yn hytrach na, fel sy’n cael ei awgrymu ar hyn o bryd yn Abertawe, Threforys yn cael eu rhannu’n ddau?

The First Minister: The new scheme will be designed to improve on the old Communities First programme, effective though that was. I have seen many examples across the whole of Wales of the effectiveness of the Communities First programme. As I said, a number of responses have been received to the consultation and they are currently being considered by the Minister.

Y Prif Weinidog: Bydd y cynllun newydd yn cael ei lunio i wella yr hen raglen Cymunedau yn Gyntaf, er mor effeithiol yr oedd honno. Yr wyf wedi gweld nifer o enghreifftiau ledled Cymru o effeithiolrwydd y rhaglen Cymunedau yn Gyntaf. Fel y dywedais, derbyniwyd nifer o ymatebion i’r ymgynghoriad ac maent yn cael eu hystyried ar hyn o bryd gan y Gweinidog.

Suzy Davies: First Minister, your Government has cut the supporting communities and people budget by 14 per cent. Do you agree with the Wales Council for Voluntary Action that it is now time to introduce real community ownership for the replacement Communities First programme, which will allow it to deliver more for less, subject to the Welsh Government’s failing to implement bi-partite governance on the ground, as identified by the Wales Audit Office, being remedied?

Suzy Davies: Brif Weinidog, mae’ch Llywodraeth chi wedi torri’r gyllideb cefnogi cymunedau a phobl gan 14 y cant. A ydych yn cytuno â Chyngor Gweithredu Gwirfoddol Cymru ei bod yn bryd bellach i gyflwyno perchnogaeth gymunedol go iawn ar gyfer y rhaglen Cymunedau yn Gyntaf newydd, a fydd yn ei chaniatáu i gyflawni mwy am lai, yn ddarostyngedig i fethiant Llywodraeth Cymru, fel y nodwyd gan Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru, i weithredu llywodraethu dwyrannol i gael ei unioni?

The First Minister: I come back to what I said before about Communities First: it has been a great success in many parts of Wales; I have seen it in my own constituency, and many other Members will have seen it in their constituencies too. It is important that we build on Communities First, which was a programme that was designed to help those communities that had been hammered the hardest by previous Conservative Governments.

Y Prif Weinidog: Dof yn ôl at yr hyn a ddywedais yn gynharach am Gymunedau yn Gyntaf: y mae wedi bod yn llwyddiant mawr mewn sawl rhan o Gymru; yr wyf wedi ei weld yn fy etholaeth fy hun, ac fe fydd nifer o Aelodau eraill wedi ei weld yn eu hetholaethau hwy hefyd. Mae’n bwysig ein bod yn adeiladu ar Gymunedau yn Gyntaf, a oedd yn rhaglen a gynlluniwyd i helpu’r cymunedau hynny a gafodd eu bwrw galetaf gan Lywodraethau Ceidwadol blaenorol.

Bethan Jenkins: Yn ddiweddar cefais gyfarfod â chogydd ysgol leol sy’n awyddus i ddatblygu gwersi coginio a gwersi bwyd iachus—nid gwersi arbenigol, ond gwersi i ddysgu pobl sut i goginio pethau normal ac iachus yn eu bywydau bob dydd. Mae Cymunedau yn Gyntaf Penlan yn cynnal prosiect tebyg, ond nid yw’n cael ei weithredu’n strategol ar hyd a lled prosiectau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf. A yw hyn yn rhywbeth y gallwch chi ei ystyried yn rhan o gynlluniau newydd ar gyfer Cymunedau yn Gyntaf yn yr ardal benodol hon?

Bethan Jenkins: I recently met a local school cook who is keen to develop cookery lessons and healthy food lessons—not specialist lessons, but to teach people how to cook normal and healthy food in their everyday lives. Penlan Communities First is undertaking a similar project, but it is not being rolled out strategically across Communities First. Is this something that you could consider as part of your new plans for Communities First in this particular area?

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae hwnnw’n syniad diddorol ac yn rhywbeth y gellid ei ystyried pan fydd y Gweinidog yn mynd drwy’r atebion yr ydym wedi eu derbyn yn rhan o’r ymgynghoriad.

The First Minister: That is an interesting idea and is something that could be considered when the Minister goes through the responses that we have received to the consultation.

Economi Canol De Cymru

The South Wales Central Economy

13. Andrew R.T. Davies: Pa gamau y mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn eu cymryd i ysgogi twf yn economi Canol De Cymru. OAQ(4)0184(FM)

13. Andrew R.T. Davies: What measures is the Welsh Government taking to stimulate growth in the South Wales Central economy. OAQ(4)0184(FM)

The First Minister: A range of actions are under way through our programme for government. I will announce an additional package of measures shortly.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae amrywiaeth o gamau gweithredu ar waith drwy ein rhaglen lywodraethu. Byddaf yn cyhoeddi pecyn ychwanegol o fesurau yn fuan.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Enterprise zones were announced six weeks ago, but if you are someone who is looking to invest in south Wales and, in particular, in the two enterprise zone areas of south Wales—Cardiff and St Athan—sadly, the Welsh Government has not issued any guidance or economic advice as to what support it might be able to offer those companies. When will this guidance be made available, so that the true potential of enterprise zones can be fully met?

Andrew R.T. Davies: Cyhoeddwyd ardaloedd menter chwe wythnos yn ôl, ond os ydych yn rhywun sy’n edrych i fuddsoddi yn ne Cymru ac, yn benodol, yn nwy ardal fenter de Cymru—Caerdydd a Sain Tathan—yn anffodus, nid yw Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cyhoeddi unrhyw ganllawiau neu gyngor economaidd ynghylch pa gymorth y gall gynnig i’r cwmnïau hynny. Pryd y bydd y canllawiau hyn ar gael, fel y gellir diwallu gwir botensial ardaloedd menter yn llawn?

The First Minister: Much of what will be contained in enterprise zones in Wales is already there in terms of the enterprise zones in England. I encourage any potential investor who wishes to come to Wales to contact us and we will be able to advise them on what support is available.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae llawer o’r hyn y bydd yn cael ei gynnwys mewn ardaloedd menter yng Nghymru yno eisoes o ran yr ardaloedd menter yn Lloegr. Anogaf unrhyw fuddsoddwr posibl sy’n dymuno dod i Gymru i gysylltu â ni a byddwn yn gallu eu cynghori ar ba gymorth sydd ar gael.

Leanne Wood: While the growth figures out today may provide some small relief on a UK basis, the outlook for the Welsh economy is far from rosy, although we do not have a true picture because the figures for Wales are not available, as was pointed out earlier by my colleague Rhodri Glyn Thomas. This week, the pressure group Compass produced an ambitious document calling for a plan B for the economy to avoid the UK economy hurtling into another recession. Many of its proposals cannot be delivered by the Welsh Government because of the Assembly’s limited powers, but some could, for example, the retrofitting of homes to become greener and investing in house building. First Minister, does your Government have a plan B, if things continue to go downhill fast in the Welsh economy?

Leanne Wood: Er y bydd y ffigurau twf sydd allan heddiw efallai yn darparu rhywfaint o ryddhad o ran y DU, mae’r rhagolygon ar gyfer economi Cymru ymhell o fod yn addawol, er nad oes darlun cywir gennym oherwydd nid yw’r ffigurau ar gyfer Cymru ar gael, fel y nodwyd yn gynharach gan fy nghyd-Aelod Rhodri Glyn Thomas. Yr wythnos hon, lluniodd y grŵp pwyso Compass ddogfen uchelgeisiol yn galw am gynllun B ar gyfer yr economi er mwyn osgoi sefyllfa o economi y DU yn carlamu tuag at ddirwasgiad arall. Ni all Llywodraeth Cymru ddarparu sawl un o’i chynigion oherwydd pwerau cyfyngedig y Cynulliad, ond fe all ddarparu rhai ohonynt, er enghraifft ôl-osod cartrefi i ddod yn fwy gwyrdd a buddsoddi mewn adeiladu tai. Brif Weinidog, a oes gan eich Llywodraeth gynllun B, os bydd pethau yn parhau i fynd ar i lawr yn gyflym yn economi Cymru?

The First Minister: The retrofitting of homes is already being done through Arbed, a scheme that has been in place for some time. However, I do agree with you that we need to investigate ways of ensuring that Welsh GDP figures are available. That is something that we are looking at now to ensure that those figures can be made available for Wales. However, as I said, we are in discussions with other parties, as the parties will know, as to how the £38.9 million consequential can best be used for the creation of jobs and skills in Wales. We are happy to work with other parties where there are suggestions that can be agreed to be taken forward.

Y Prif Weinidog: Mae ôl-osod cartrefi yn cael ei wneud eisoes drwy Arbed, cynllun sydd wedi bod ar waith ers peth amser. Fodd bynnag, cytunaf â chi bod angen inni ymchwilio i ffyrdd o sicrhau bod ffigurau CMC Cymru ar gael. Mae hynny’n rhywbeth yr ydym yn edrych arno yn awr i sicrhau y gellir darparu y ffigurau hynny ar gyfer Cymru. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais, yr ydym mewn trafodaethau gyda’r pleidiau eraill, fel y bydd y pleidiau yn ymwybodol, ynghylch sut orau i ddefnyddio’r £38.9 miliwn canlyniadol ar gyfer creu swyddi a sgiliau yng Nghymru. Yr ydym yn hapus i weithio gyda’r pleidiau eraill lle ceir awgrymiadau y gellir cytuno bwrw ymlaen â hwy.

The First Minister: Bear in mind the fact that Conservative Governments did not electrify any lines either. The reality is that we have never had any lines powered by electricity in Wales. I hope that that changes in the near future. The Welsh Government will lead on the process to re-let the Wales and borders rail franchise from its expiry in 2018. We are in the early stages of preparing for this. However, as I have said many times before, the south Wales main line goes as far as Swansea, not Cardiff. I have great concern that electrification of the line as far as Cardiff only would mean that, in effect, Cardiff would be seen as the end of the line, which would mean that high-speed services would not travel in future between London and Swansea, which would be detrimental not just to those communities further west of Cardiff, but to the Valleys communities as well.

Y Prif Weinidog: Cofiwch y ffaith na wnaeth y Llywodraethau Ceidwadol drydaneiddio unrhyw linellau ychwaith. Y realiti ydyw nad ydym erioed wedi cael unrhyw linellau a yrrir gan drydan yng Nghymru. Gobeithiaf y bydd hynny’n newid yn y dyfodol agos. Bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn arwain ar y broses o ailosod masnachfraint rheilffordd Cymru a’r gororau wedi iddi ddod i ben yn 2018. Yr ydym ar ddechrau’r broses o baratoi ar gyfer hyn. Fodd bynnag, fel y dywedais droeon o’r blaen, mae prif linell de Cymru yn mynd mor bell ag Abertawe, nid Caerdydd. Mae gennyf bryder mawr y byddai trydaneiddio’r llinell mor bell â Chaerdydd yn unig yn golygu, mewn gwirionedd, y byddai Caerdydd yn cael ei hystyried fel diwedd y llinell, a fyddai’n golygu na fyddai gwasanaethau cyflym yn teithio yn y dyfodol rhwng Llundain ac Abertawe, a fyddai’n niweidiol nid yn unig i’r cymunedau hynny ymhellach i’r gorllewin o Gaerdydd, ond i gymunedau’r Cymoedd yn ogystal.

The Minister for Finance and Leader of the House (Jane Hutt): I have one change to report to this week’s Government business. The Minister for Education and Skills will be making a statement on Remploy. Business for the next three weeks is as shown on the business statement and announcement, which can be found among the agenda papers that are available to Members electronically.

Y Gweinidog Cyllid ac Arweinydd y Tŷ (Jane Hutt): Mae gennyf un newid i’w adrodd i fusnes y Llywodraeth yr wythnos hon. Bydd y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau yn gwneud datganiad ar Remploy. Mae’r busnes ar gyfer y tair wythnos nesaf fel y’i dangosir ar y datganiad a chyhoeddiad busnes, y gellir ei weld ymhlith y papurau agenda sydd ar gael i Aelodau yn electronig.

William Graham: I thank the Leader of the House for her statement. I ask her to bring forward a debate, as soon as she can possibly schedule one, on the Daylight Saving Bill. It is incredibly important that all sectors of Wales should be able to comment on this Bill, particularly before it goes before the House.

William Graham: Diolch i Arweinydd y Tŷ am ei datganiad. Gofynnaf iddi gyflwyno dadl, cyn gynted ag y gall hi drefnu hynny o bosibl, ar y Bil Arbed Golau Dydd. Mae’n eithriadol o bwysig y dylai pob sector yng Nghymru allu gwneud sylwadau ar y Bil hwn, yn arbennig cyn iddo fynd gerbron y Tŷ.

Jane Hutt: I thank William Graham for that question. Of course, daylight saving has been an issue for some time. Obviously, the recent private Members’ Bill looks at the possible analysis of the costs and benefits of the implications of daylight saving. It has put the matter back on the agenda, and we put our clocks back last weekend. We will obviously consider any implications for Wales at the appropriate time. However, we want to ensure that the outcome of any consideration or analysis does not disadvantage the Welsh public or Wales.

Jane Hutt: Diolchaf i William Graham am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Wrth gwrs, mae arbed golau dydd wedi bod yn broblem ers peth amser. Yn amlwg, mae’r Bil Aelod preifat diweddar yn edrych ar y dadansoddiad posibl o gostau a manteision goblygiadau arbed golau dydd. Y mae wedi rhoi’r mater yn ôl ar yr agenda, a rhoesom ein clociau yn ôl y penwythnos diwethaf. Byddwn yn amlwg yn ystyried unrhyw oblygiadau ar gyfer Cymru ar yr adeg briodol. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym am sicrhau nad ydyw canlyniad unrhyw ystyriaeth neu ddadansoddiad yn peri anfantais i gyhoedd Cymru neu i Gymru.

Bethan Jenkins: Minister, I have received representations from asylum seekers in Wales stating that the UK Border Agency is refusing them access to courses on English for speakers of other languages in Wales. Obviously, we know that, regardless of their status, asylum seekers can receive education in Wales. Could we have a statement from you, perhaps in your capacity as the Minister with responsibility for equality, clarifying the role of the UK Border Agency and whether it understands the nature of devolved politics, because, currently, I doubt that it does? The other issue for AMs here who represent Swansea is the news today that about 50 workers at the British Polythene Industries plant in Swansea could lose their jobs. I know that there is going to be a 30-day consultation process, but I would like a statement from the Government to reassure us that you are involved in these discussions. Do you have any plans to restart schemes such as ProAct and ReAct to help companies that are currently in difficulty in Wales?

Bethan Jenkins: Weinidog, yr wyf wedi derbyn sylwadau oddi wrth geiswyr lloches yng Nghymru yn datgan bod Asiantaeth Ffiniau’r DU yn gwrthod iddynt fynediad i gyrsiau Saesneg ar gyfer siaradwyr ieithoedd eraill yng Nghymru. Yn amlwg, yr ydym yn gwybod, beth bynnag eu statws, y gall ceiswyr lloches dderbyn addysg yng Nghymru. A allem gael datganiad gennych, efallai yn rhinwedd eich swydd fel y Gweinidog â chyfrifoldeb dros gydraddoldeb, yn egluro rôl Asiantaeth Ffiniau’r DU ac a ydyw’n deall natur gwleidyddiaeth ddatganoledig, oherwydd, ar hyn o bryd, yr wyf yn amau nad ydyw? Y mater arall ar gyfer Aelodau’r Cynulliad hwn sy’n cynrychioli Abertawe ydyw’r newyddion heddiw y gallai tua 50 o weithwyr yn ffatri British Polythene Industries yn Abertawe golli eu swyddi. Gwn y bydd proses ymgynghori am 30 diwrnod, ond hoffwn gael datganiad gan y Llywodraeth i roi sicrwydd inni eich bod yn cymryd rhan yn y trafodaethau hyn. A oes gennych unrhyw gynlluniau i ailgychwyn cynlluniau megis ProAct a ReAct i helpu cwmnïau sydd mewn trafferth yng Nghymru ar hyn o bryd?

Jane Hutt: I recently met the regional director of the UK Border Agency for Wales, Jane Farleigh. She was very keen to engage and liaise, not just with the Welsh Government, but with Assembly Members on issues that have a devolved as well as a non-devolved impact on our constituents and the people we serve. I will be seeking to raise with her these issues to do with access to ESOL being denied. I hope that you would bring these matters to our attention and, indeed, to the attention of the Minister for Education and Skills.

Jane Hutt: Cyfarfûm â chyfarwyddwr rhanbarthol Asiantaeth Ffiniau’r DU i Gymru, Jane Farleigh, yn ddiweddar. Yr oedd hi’n awyddus iawn i ymgysylltu a chyfathrebu, nid yn unig gyda Llywodraeth Cymru, ond gydag Aelodau Cynulliad ar faterion sydd ag effaith ddatganoledig yn ogystal ag annatganoledig ar ein hetholwyr a’r bobl yr ydym yn eu gwasanaethu. Byddaf yn ceisio codi gyda hi y materion sy’n ymwneud â mynediad i ESOL yn cael ei wrthod. Gobeithiaf y byddech yn dwyn y materion hyn i’n sylw ac, yn wir, i sylw’r Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau.

On your second point, ProAct has supported many companies in Wales effectively and enabled them to stay in business and people to stay in their jobs with the wage subsidy and access to training. I think that we have to await the 30-day consultation, but I know that our officials are playing their part in any support necessary.

Ar eich ail bwynt, mae ProAct wedi cefnogi nifer o gwmnïau yng Nghymru yn effeithiol ac wedi’u galluogi i aros mewn busnes ac i bobl aros yn eu swyddi gyda’r cymhorthdal cyflog a mynediad i hyfforddiant. Credaf fod rhaid inni aros am y cyfnod ymgynghori 30 diwrnod, ond gwn fod ein swyddogion yn chwarae eu rhan mewn unrhyw gymorth angenrheidiol.

Peter Black: Minister, I have been made aware of the case of an 89-year-old lady in Rhossili who waited 55 minutes for an ambulance a couple of days ago, when a first responder could have been there within 10 minutes to make her comfortable and administer basic first aid. This is a problem that is escalating around Gower and other rural areas in Wales. Therefore, is it possible for the Minister for Health and Social Services to make a statement to the Assembly on this issue to say how she is dealing with the dispute that appears to be taking place between the Welsh Ambulance Services NHS Trust and the fire and rescue services with regard to how the first responder scheme is being operated?

Peter Black: Weinidog, gwneuthum yn ymwybodol o achos gwraig 89 oed yn Rhosili a wnaeth aros 55 munud am ambiwlans ychydig ddyddiau yn ôl, pan allai ymatebwr cyntaf fod wedi bod yno o fewn 10 munud i’w gwneud hi’n gyfforddus ac i weinyddu cymorth cyntaf sylfaenol. Mae hyn yn broblem sy’n gwaethygu o gwmpas y Gŵyr ac ardaloedd gwledig eraill yng Nghymru. Felly, a yw’n bosibl i’r Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wneud datganiad i’r Cynulliad ar y mater hwn i ddweud sut y mae’n delio â’r anghydfod yr ymddengys sydd yn digwydd rhwng Ymddiriedolaeth GIG Gwasanaethau Ambiwlans Cymru a’r gwasanaethau tân ac achub o ran sut y gweithredir y cynllun ymatebwyr cyntaf?

2.30 p.m.

Jane Hutt: Peter Black’s question is important in terms of the close working between our emergency services that we and the Minister expect, and it is delivering effectively in many parts of Wales. If this is a dysfunction, we need to address it, and we must recognise that the Welsh ambulance trust’s response times are being met at an all-Wales level, which is very pleasing. However, the role of the first responder is critical in term of access to those places where an unacceptable delay has unfortunately occurred.

Jane Hutt: Mae cwestiwn Peter Black yn bwysig o ran y cydweithio agos rhwng ein gwasanaethau brys y byddem ni a’r Gweinidog yn ei ddisgwyl, ac y mae’n cael ei gyflwyno yn effeithiol mewn sawl rhan o Gymru. Os mai camweithredu yw hyn, bydd angen inni roi sylw iddo, ac y mae’n rhaid inni gydnabod bod amseroedd ymateb ymddiriedolaeth ambiwlans Cymru yn cael eu diwallu ar lefel Cymru gyfan, sydd yn foddhaol iawn. Fodd bynnag, mae rôl yr ymatebwr cyntaf yn hanfodol o ran mynediad at y mannau hynny lle mae oedi annerbyniol wedi digwydd, yn anffodus.

Mark Isherwood: I call for two statements. First, as you will be aware, the Assembly website states that there are no Government-introduced Assembly Bills in progress. As Leader of the House, will you provide a statement advising Members as to when we should expect to see a Bill tabled? It is almost six months since the Welsh general election and I am concerned about the absence of legislation being tabled by your Government. While we have seen your five-year legislative programme, your legislative programme for 2011-12 and your programme for government, we have not had a single Bill tabled for us to scrutinise. Compare that position with that of the new Scottish Government, which has introduced two Bills in its first six months, and that of the UK Government, which introduced 10 Bills, including three in its first month in office.

Mark Isherwood: Galwaf am ddau ddatganiad. Yn gyntaf, fel y gwyddoch, mae gwefan y Cynulliad yn datgan nad oes unrhyw Filiau Cynulliad a gyflwynwyd gan y Llywodraeth ar y gweill. Fel Arweinydd y Tŷ, a wnewch chi ddarparu datganiad yn hysbysu Aelodau pryd y dylem ddisgwyl gweld Bil yn cael ei gyflwyno? Mae bron chwe mis ers etholiad cyffredinol Cymru ac yr wyf yn pryderu am y diffyg deddfwriaeth a gyflwynir gan eich Llywodraeth. Er ein bod wedi gweld eich rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol pum mlynedd, eich rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol ar gyfer 2011-12 a’ch rhaglen lywodraethu, nid ydym wedi cael un Bil wedi’i gyflwyno inni ei graffu. Cymharwch y sefyllfa honno â sefyllfa Llywodraeth newydd yr Alban, sydd wedi cyflwyno dau Fil yn ei chwe mis cyntaf, a Llywodraeth y DU, a gyflwynodd 10 Bil, gan gynnwys tri yn ei mis cyntaf mewn grym.

Secondly, I again call for a statement on proposals for the express rail services from Holyhead to Cardiff. We are now only five weeks away from the new timetable and I am advised that, in October, Arriva Trains Wales stakeholder managers who attended the annual general meeting of the Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth Rail Passenger Association, stated that they had had no indication from the Welsh Government as to the revised national transport plan or future Welsh Government express services and ‘are as much in the dark as the rest of us’. Please assure us, Minister, that the Welsh Government rail division is not once again making lone decisions.

Yn ail, yr wyf yn galw unwaith eto am ddatganiad ar gynigion ar gyfer y gwasanaethau rheilffordd cyflym rhwng Caergybi a Chaerdydd. Dim ond pum wythnos sydd bellach cyn inni gael yr amserlen newydd a chaf ar ddeall fod rheolwyr rhanddeiliaid Trenau Arriva Cymru a fynychodd cyfarfod cyffredinol blynyddol Cymdeithas Teithwyr Rheilffordd Amwythig i Aberystwyth ym mis Hydref wedi dweud nad oeddent wedi cael unrhyw arwydd gan Lywodraeth Cymru o ran y cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol diwygiedig neu wasanaethau cyflym Llywodraeth Cymru yn y dyfodol, a’u bod gymaint yn y tywyllwch â’r gweddill ohonom. A wnewch chi ein sicrhau ni, Weinidog, nad yw is-adran rheilffyrdd Llywodraeth Cymru unwaith eto yn gwneud penderfyniadau ar ei phen ei hun?

Jane Hutt: Mark Isherwood, the regional Member for north Wales, raised two points. On the progress of Bills, the legislative programme that was announced by the First Minister in July is now being implemented, and the Minister for Health and Social Services only last week brought to us the start of a consultation on the Bill to regulate cosmetic piercing. Ministers will be forthcoming with their Bills as appropriate in terms of time for the rigorous scrutiny that I know this Assembly will undertake.

Jane Hutt: Mae Mark Isherwood, yr Aelod rhanbarthol dros ogledd Cymru, wedi codi dau bwynt. Ar gynnydd y Biliau, mae’r rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol a gyhoeddwyd gan y Prif Weinidog ym mis Gorffennaf bellach yn cael ei rhoi ar waith, a dim ond yr wythnos ddiwethaf y daeth y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol â dechreuad ymgynghoriad ar y Bil i reoleiddio tyllu cosmetig i ni. Bydd Gweinidogion yn cyflwyno eu Biliau fel sy’n briodol o ran amser ar gyfer y craffu trylwyr y gwn y bydd y Cynulliad hwn yn ei gynnal.

On the second point, the timetabling does not relate to the national transport plan. This is for those who are contracted to deliver the services—Arriva Trains and Network Rail. I am sure that the Minister with responsibility for transport heard the point in terms of the local situation.

Ar yr ail bwynt, nid yw’r amserlennu yn ymwneud â’r cynllun trafnidiaeth cenedlaethol. Mae hyn ar gyfer y rhai sydd o dan gontract i ddarparu’r gwasanaethau—Trenau Arriva a Network Rail. Mae’n siŵr gennyf fod y Gweinidog sy’n gyfrifol am drafnidiaeth wedi clywed y pwynt o ran y sefyllfa leol.

Elin Jones: A wnewch chi ofyn i’r Dirprwy Weinidog amaeth am ddatganiad ar fwriad y Llywodraeth ynglŷn â fferm ymchwil Pwllpeiran ym mynyddoedd y Cambria yn fy etholaeth i? Mae hon yn fferm ymchwil sydd wedi bod mewn perchnogaeth gyhoeddus am 50 mlynedd, ac mae’n fferm o tua 1,300 ha. Mae’r fferm yn eiddo i Lywodraeth Cymru ac yn rhedeg sawl cynllun ymchwil ar hyn o bryd. Mae’r fferm ar hyn o bryd ar les i’r Gwasanaeth Datblygu a Chynghori Amaethyddol, ond bydd yn ildio’r les fis Mawrth nesaf. Mae naw a hanner aelod o staff cyfwerth ag amser llawn yn gweithio yno, ac nid ydynt yn gwybod ar hyn o bryd beth fydd eu tynged fis Ebrill nesaf. Mae dau aelod o staff hefyd yn byw mewn dau o’r chwe thŷ sydd ar y fferm, ac maent felly’n wynebu ansicrwydd ynglŷn â’u swyddi yn ogystal â’u cartrefi. Mae amser y fferm unigryw hon yn prysur ddiflannu, ac felly, gofynnaf i chi ofyn i’r Dirprwy Weinidog wneud datganiad i’r Senedd ar fyrder.

Elin Jones: Will you ask the Deputy Minister for agriculture for a statement on the Government’s intention regarding the Pwllpeiran research farm in the Cambrian mountains in my constituency? This is a research farm that has been in public ownership for 50 years, and it is a farm of about 1,300 ha. The farm is owned by the Welsh Government and runs a number of research programmes at the moment. The farm is currently leased to the Agricultural Development Advisory Service, but it will be giving up that lease next March. Nine and a half full-time equivalent members of staff work there and they do not know at the moment what their fate will be next April. Two of those members of staff also live in two of the six houses on the farm, therefore, they are facing uncertainty about their jobs and their homes. Time is running out for this unique farm and, therefore, I ask you to ask the Deputy Minister to make a swift statement to the Senedd.

Jane Hutt: I will ask the Deputy Minister to update you, and, if appropriate, the whole Chamber, on the progress and the situation as far as the research farm is concerned.

Jane Hutt: Gofynnaf i’r Dirprwy Weinidog i roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ichi, ac, os yw’n briodol, i’r Siambr gyfan, ar y cynnydd a’r sefyllfa o safbwynt y fferm ymchwil.

Kirsty Williams: Minister, you have previously been asked in questions whether the Minister for Local Government and Communities could bring forth a statement on policy with regard to brown tourism signs. There seems to be inconsistency in the approach as to how and when these signs are agreed, where they are placed and the iconography used on individual signs. It is causing a great deal of concern in my constituency, especially as we have the development of the road between Builth Wells and Newbridge-on-Wye. To date, I have not been able to get a satisfactory answer from the Minister for local government as to the reasons behind his decision with regard to brown signs on that particular route. I am sure that all Members would benefit from a greater understanding of how the Minister for local government makes his decisions on what are for businesses very important signage issues.

Kirsty Williams: Weinidog, yr ydych wedi cael cais o’r blaen, mewn cwestiynau, i’r Gweinidog Llywodraeth Leol a Chymunedau wneud datganiad ar y polisi o ran arwyddion twristiaeth brown? Mae’n ymddangos bod anghysondeb yn y dull o ran sut a phryd y cytunir ar yr arwyddion hyn, lle cânt eu gosod a’r eiconograffeg a ddefnyddir ar bob arwydd yn unigol. Mae’n peri cryn dipyn o bryder yn fy etholaeth i, yn enwedig gan fod gennym ddatblygiad y ffordd rhwng Llanfair-ym-Muallt a’r Bontnewydd-ar-Wy. Hyd yn hyn, nid wyf wedi llwyddo i gael ateb boddhaol gan y Gweinidog dros lywodraeth leol ynghylch y rhesymau y tu ôl i’w benderfyniad o ran arwyddion brown ar y ffordd benodol honno. Mae’n siŵr gennyf y gwnâi pob Aelod elwa ar well dealltwriaeth o sut y mae’r Gweinidog dros lywodraeth leol yn gwneud ei benderfyniadau ar faterion arwyddion, sy’n bwysig iawn i fusnesau.

Jane Hutt: I thank the leader of the Liberal Democrats for that question. It is a matter for the Minister with responsibility for transport, and I understand that he is consulting on the issue of when and where brown signs should be made available to promote important developments such as those that Kirsty Williams described.

Jane Hutt: Yr wyf yn diolch i arweinydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Mater i’r Gweinidog â chyfrifoldeb dros drafnidiaeth yw hwnnw, a chaf ar ddeall ei fod yn ymgynghori ar y mater o ran pryd a lle y dylai arwyddion brown fod ar gael i hyrwyddo datblygiadau pwysig megis y rhai a ddisgrifiwyd gan Kirsty Williams.

Mohammad Asghar: Minister, I would like a statement or a debate on the Welsh Government’s plans for Cardiff Airport. No mention of any substance has been made of air transport from Cardiff Airport in the programme for government. The Fly Cardiff group has launched a campaign and a petition with the aim of attracting more airlines and businesses to the airport. It describes the airport as a weak link in the Welsh economy. Some of my colleagues have already mentioned this afternoon that an economy is based on a good transport system, and I believe that Cardiff Airport is definitely not serving the purpose of improving the economy. I would like to see the Government exploring the potential of a direct air link between Wales and North America. Minister, I urge the Government to bring forward a statement or a debate on this issue. South Wales needs a truly world-class airport. Our Government is funding this airport. I said to the Minister at a committee meeting that he is throwing good money at bad business—and that was a few years ago. Minister, I would like you to consider this matter seriously and establish a joint committee of all parties in this Chamber to make recommendations to the Civil Aviation Authority to look after our air space for the people of Wales.

Mohammad Asghar: Weinidog, hoffwn gael datganiad neu ddadl am gynlluniau Llywodraeth Cymru ar gyfer Maes Awyr Caerdydd. Nid oes unrhyw sôn o sylwedd yn y rhaglen lywodraethu am gludiant awyr o Faes Awyr Caerdydd. Mae grŵp Fly Cardiff wedi lansio ymgyrch a deiseb gyda’r nod o ddenu mwy o gwmnïau awyrennau a busnesau i’r maes awyr. Mae’n disgrifio’r maes awyr fel dolen wan yn economi Cymru. Mae rhai o’m cydweithwyr eisoes wedi sôn y prynhawn yma fod economi yn seiliedig ar system gludiant dda, a chredaf, yn bendant, nad yw Maes Awyr Caerdydd yn cyflawni’r diben o wella’r economi. Hoffwn weld y Llywodraeth yn archwilio’r potensial o gael cyswllt awyr uniongyrchol rhwng Cymru a Gogledd America. Weinidog, yr wyf yn annog y Llywodraeth i gyflwyno datganiad neu ddadl ar y mater hwn. Mae De Cymru wir angen maes awyr safon uchel. Mae ein Llywodraeth ni yn ariannu’r maes awyr hwn. Dywedais wrth y Gweinidog mewn cyfarfod pwyllgor ei fod yn taflu arian da at fusnes gwael—ac yr oedd hynny ychydig flynyddoedd yn ôl bellach. Weinidog, hoffwn ichi ystyried y mater hwn o ddifrif a sefydlu cyd-bwyllgor o bob plaid yn y Siambr hon i wneud argymhellion i’r Awdurdod Hedfan Sifil i edrych ar ôl ein gofod awyr ar gyfer pobl Cymru.

Jane Hutt: I thank Mohammad Asghar for that question; it is something that is close to the hearts of many of us with regard to the future prospects for Cardiff Airport. We continue to work very closely with the airport on those areas where we can offer support—clearly, the airport is privately owned. Marketing and promotion is one such area, and we are monitoring discussions that are now being led by Cardiff Airport with airlines to develop new routes out of Cardiff.

Jane Hutt: Diolch i Mohammad Asghar am y cwestiwn hwnnw; mae’n rhywbeth sy’n agos at galonnau llawer ohonom o ran dyfodol Maes Awyr Caerdydd. Rydym yn parhau i gydweithio’n agos iawn â’r maes awyr ar y meysydd lle y gallwn gynnig cymorth—wrth gwrs, eiddo preifat yw’r maes awyr. Mae marchnata a hyrwyddo yn un maes o’r fath, ac yr ydym yn monitro trafodaethau sydd bellach yn cael eu harwain gan Faes Awyr Caerdydd gyda chwmnïau awyrennau i ddatblygu llwybrau newydd allan o Gaerdydd.

Leanne Wood: I am sure that many Members will share my concerns about news reports yesterday that showed that Charles Windsor has the right to veto any UK legislation and is consulted on any matter that affects his personal interests. Page 663 of Erskine May, the Westminster Parliament’s rulebook, states that

Leanne Wood: Mae’n siŵr gennyf y bydd llawer o Aelodau yn rhannu fy mhryderon ynghylch yr adroddiadau yn y newyddion ddoe a oedd yn dangos bod gan Charles Windsor yr hawl i roi feto ar unrhyw ddeddfwriaeth yn y Deyrnas Unedig ac yr ymgynghorir ag ef ar unrhyw fater sy’n effeithio ar ei fuddiannau personol. Mae tudalen 663 Erskine May, llyfr rheolau Senedd San Steffan, yn nodi bod

‘the Prince’s consent is required for a bill which affects the rights of the principality of Wales [and] the earldom of Chester’.

angen cydsyniad y Tywysog ar gyfer bil sy’n effeithio ar hawliau tywysogaeth Cymru [ac] iarllaeth Caer.

Minister, can we have a Government statement covering the Welsh Government’s position regarding this right to consultation on and veto of Westminster’s legislation, whether it applies to Welsh legislation that affects his interests, and the Government’s view on that? Also, what can be done to impress upon those in the UK Parliament that Wales is not a principality, and can you ask for Erskine May to be amended, along with all other relevant documentation, to reflect the fact that Wales is a country and not a principality?

Weinidog, a allwn gael datganiad gan y Llywodraeth ar safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru ynghylch yr hawl hwn i ymgynghori ar, a rhoi feto ar ddeddfwriaeth San Steffan, boed yn berthnasol ai peidio i’r ddeddfwriaeth Gymreig sy’n effeithio ar ei fuddiannau, a barn y Llywodraeth ar hynny? Hefyd, beth a ellir ei wneud i bwysleisio i’r rheiny yn Senedd y DU nad tywysogaeth yw Cymru, ac a allwch ofyn am gael Erskine May wedi’i ddiwygio, ynghyd â phob dogfennaeth berthnasol arall, i adlewyrchu’r ffaith mai gwlad yw Cymru ac nid tywysogaeth?

Jane Hutt: Leanne Wood need not believe every story she reads in the newspapers, not even in The Guardian, which would be my preferred reading. I can assure you that the Prince of Wales has had no involvement in Welsh legislation. Indeed, he has no role, now or in the future, in this regard.

Jane Hutt: Nid oes angen i Leanne Wood gredu pob stori y mae’n ei darllen yn y papurau newydd, hyd yn oed yn The Guardian, sef fy newis i o ran darllen. Gallaf eich sicrhau nad yw Tywysog Cymru wedi ymwneud mewn unrhyw ffordd â deddfwriaeth Cymru. Yn wir, nid oes rôl ganddo, yn awr nac yn y dyfodol, yn hyn o beth.

Nick Ramsay: Regardless of whether you describe Wales as a principality, Minister, or as a nation, I am sure that you will join me in welcoming the fact that we are going to get the electrification of the Great Western line. May we have a statement on what the Government intends to do to build upon the advantages to Wales resulting from that electrification? Many Members have raised the issue of a metro and the further electrification of the Valleys lines; this is an excellent opportunity for your Government to build upon the great success that will be brought forward by the UK coalition Government and to ensure that Wales benefits from the advantages resulting from the electrification of the Great Western line.

Nick Ramsay: Pa un ai a ydych yn disgrifio Cymru fel tywysogaeth, Weinidog, neu fel cenedl, mae’n siŵr gennyf yr ymunwch â mi i groesawu’r ffaith ein bod yn mynd i gael trydaneiddio’r rheilffordd Great Western. A gawn ni ddatganiad ar yr hyn y mae’r Llywodraeth yn bwriadu ei wneud i adeiladu ar y manteision i Gymru o ganlyniad i’r trydaneiddio hwnnw? Mae llawer o Aelodau wedi codi’r mater o fetro a thrydaneiddio pellach rheilffyrdd y Cymoedd; dyma gyfle gwych i’ch Llywodraeth chi i adeiladu ar y llwyddiant gwych a fydd yn cael ei ddwyn ymlaen gan Lywodraeth glymblaid y Deyrnas Unedig ac i sicrhau bod Cymru’n elwa ar y manteision sy’n deillio o drydaneiddio lein y Great Western.

Jane Hutt: The Conservative business, enterprise, technology and science spokesperson will know that the Welsh Government is seeking the further electrification of the line—between not only London and Cardiff, but Cardiff and Swansea—and I hope that he endorses this. I hope that he will also exert his influence with regard to extending the portion that is electrified. This is an issue that I was able to raise last week with the UK Minister for infrastructure, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury and the Secretary of State for Wales. Once again, I impressed upon them the importance of electrification. With regard to the Valleys, the Welsh Government will be able to ensure that our plans for growth, skills and jobs in Wales can be delivered in terms of that important bit of infrastructure.

Jane Hutt: Bydd llefarydd y Ceidwadwyr ar fusnes, menter, technoleg a gwyddoniaeth yn gwybod bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn ceisio trydaneiddio pellach o’r llinell—nid yn unig rhwng Llundain a Chaerdydd, ond rhwng Caerdydd ac Abertawe—ac yr wyf yn gobeithio ei fod yn ategu hyn. Yr wyf yn gobeithio y bydd hefyd yn ymdrechu i ddefnyddio ei ddylanwad o ran ymestyn y darn sy’n cael ei drydaneiddio. Mae hwn yn fater y medrais ei godi yr wythnos ddiwethaf gyda Gweinidog y DU dros seilwaith, Prif Ysgrifennydd y Trysorlys ac Ysgrifennydd Gwladol Cymru. Unwaith eto, pwysleisiais wrthynt bwysigrwydd trydaneiddio. O ran y Cymoedd, bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu sicrhau y gall ein cynlluniau ar gyfer twf, sgiliau a swyddi yng Nghymru gael eu gwireddu o safbwynt y darn pwysig o seilwaith hwnnw.

Datganiad: Remploy
Statement: Remploy

The Minister for Education and Skills (Leighton Andrews): In recent months, I have answered a number of letters and questions from Assembly Members enquiring about the future of Remploy in Wales on behalf of their constituents. I now wish to reaffirm the position of the Welsh Government on the issue of Remploy in Wales. I also want to outline the latest developments in this area, and I welcome views and questions.

Y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau (Leighton Andrews): Yn y misoedd diwethaf, yr wyf wedi ateb nifer o lythyrau a chwestiynau gan Aelodau’r Cynulliad yn holi am ddyfodol Remploy yng Nghymru ar ran eu hetholwyr. Yr wyf yn awr yn dymuno ailddatgan safbwynt Llywodraeth Cymru ar y mater o Remploy yng Nghymru. Yr wyf hefyd am amlinellu’r datblygiadau diweddaraf yn y maes hwn, ac yr wyf yn croesawu eich barn a’ch cwestiynau.

In 2010, the UK Government commissioned a review of specialist employment support for disabled people. Earlier this year, the Welsh Government provided evidence to the review, which was headed by Liz Sayce, the chief executive of the Royal Association for Disability Rights. It was published in June, and a UK Government consultation was launched shortly afterwards. This was accompanied by the publication of the UK Government’s response, which indicated that it was minded to accept the review’s recommendations.

Yn 2010, comisiynodd Llywodraeth y DU adolygiad o gymorth cyflogaeth arbenigol i bobl anabl. Yn gynharach eleni, rhoddodd Llywodraeth Cymru dystiolaeth i’r adolygiad, a arweiniwyd gan Liz Sayce, prif weithredwr y Gymdeithas Frenhinol ar gyfer Hawliau Anabledd. Fe’i cyhoeddwyd ym mis Mehefin, a lansiwyd ymgynghoriad gan Lywodraeth y DU yn fuan wedyn. Yn ogystal, cyhoeddwyd ymateb Llywodraeth y DU, a oedd yn nodi ei bod yn bwriadu derbyn argymhellion yr adolygiad.

I welcome the emphasis in the Sayce review on greater independence and self-determination for disabled people, to direct funding where it can be most effective, and to increase the flexibility of specialist support. However, I believe that it is essential that specialist employment support in Wales should be appropriate for Wales, in line with other measures to support people into and during employment. It should be delivered in a pragmatic, efficient and integrated way that makes best use of tight resources. I also firmly believe that the Welsh Government should not be in a position of having to fund interventions caused by, or related to, the UK Government’s welfare reform agenda.

Croesawaf y pwyslais yn adolygiad Sayce ar fwy o annibyniaeth a hunan-benderfyniad ar gyfer pobl anabl, i gyfeirio cyllid lle y gall fod fwyaf effeithiol, ac i gynyddu hyblygrwydd y cymorth arbenigol. Fodd bynnag, credaf ei bod yn hanfodol bod cymorth cyflogaeth arbenigol yng Nghymru yn briodol i Gymru, yn unol â mesurau eraill i gynorthwyo pobl i mewn ac yn ystod cyflogaeth. Dylid ei gyflwyno mewn ffordd bragmatig, effeithlon ac integredig sydd yn gwneud y defnydd gorau o adnoddau tynn. Rwyf hefyd yn credu’n gryf na ddylai Llywodraeth Cymru fod mewn sefyllfa o orfod ariannu ymyriadau a achosir gan, neu sy’n gysylltiedig ag agenda diwygio lles Llywodraeth y DU.

There is no doubt that the recommendations of the Sayce review have a potential impact across many areas, especially healthcare, social services, education and skills provision, support for carers, and engagement with employers. It is therefore important to consider the recommendations in the full context of the specific priorities Wales is facing. Further to this, the Welsh Cabinet has recently confirmed its position regarding any proposed closure of Remploy factories in Wales.

Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth bod argymhellion adolygiad Sayce yn cael effaith bosibl ar draws llawer o feysydd, yn enwedig gofal iechyd, gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, darpariaeth addysg a sgiliau, cymorth i ofalwyr, ac ymgysylltu â chyflogwyr. Felly, mae’n bwysig ystyried yr argymhellion yng nghyd-destun llawn y blaenoriaethau penodol y mae Cymru yn eu hwynebu. Yn ychwanegol at hyn, mae Cabinet Cymru wedi cadarnhau yn ddiweddar ei safbwynt ynghylch unrhyw fwriad i gau ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru.

There is no doubt that the implications of the review’s recommendations are complex, and some of them have a direct impact on employment support for disabled people in Wales, especially those in Remploy factories. Employees have been unsettled by the potential implications of the Sayce review, in particular by suggestions of possible factory closures. In Wales, Remploy factories play an important role for their employees, the families and carers of people with disabilities and long-term health issues who want to have a full, useful working life but face substantial obstacles in the open labour market. The Welsh Government has made this point in the evidence that we provided to the Sayce review in February of this year.

Nid oes amheuaeth bod goblygiadau argymhellion yr adolygiad yn gymhleth, ac y mae rhai ohonynt yn cael effaith uniongyrchol ar gymorth cyflogaeth ar gyfer pobl anabl yng Nghymru, yn enwedig y rhai mewn ffatrïoedd Remploy. Mae gweithwyr wedi cael eu siglo gan oblygiadau posibl adolygiad Sayce, yn benodol drwy awgrymiadau o gau ffatrïoedd, o bosibl. Yng Nghymru, mae ffatrïoedd Remploy yn chwarae rhan bwysig ar gyfer eu gweithwyr, ac i deuluoedd a gofalwyr pobl ag anableddau a phroblemau iechyd tymor hir sydd eisiau bywyd gwaith defnyddiol a llawn ond sy’n wynebu rhwystrau sylweddol yn y farchnad lafur agored. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gwneud y pwynt hwn yn y dystiolaeth a ddarparwyd gennym i adolygiad Sayce ym mis Chwefror eleni.

We have also outlined our position with respect to Remploy and other matters considered in the review in our recent response to the UK Government’s consultation on the review’s recommendations. In our response, I stated clearly that the Welsh Government disagrees with any factory closures in Wales, and that we will vigorously oppose such closures. I have requested that the UK Government reconsiders some of the conclusions of the review. I have also suggested that some of the evidence should be analysed in more detail, with a specific view to the interests of Wales, and that the financial aspects of some recommendations should be explored in more detail.

Rydym hefyd wedi amlinellu ein sefyllfa o safbwynt Remploy a materion eraill a ystyriwyd yn yr adolygiad yn ein hymateb diweddar i ymgynghoriad Llywodraeth y DU ar argymhellion yr adolygiad. Yn ein hymateb, dywedais yn glir bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn anghytuno â chau unrhyw ffatri yng Nghymru, ac y byddwn yn llwyr wrthwynebu cau o’r fath. Yr wyf wedi gofyn bod Llywodraeth y DU yn ailystyried rhai o gasgliadau’r adolygiad. Rwyf hefyd wedi awgrymu y dylai rhywfaint o’r dystiolaeth gael ei ddadansoddi yn fwy manwl, gyda golwg benodol o ran buddiannau Cymru, ac y dylai agweddau ariannol rhai argymhellion gael eu harchwilio’n fanylach.

2.45 p.m.

Attempts to close Remploy factories are not new, and while it has to be accepted that Remploy needs to change to reflect changing economic and labour-market conditions, we believe that there are alternatives to closing factories that serve people who are among the most vulnerable and disadvantaged in the labour market. The evidence available to us appears to indicate that the closure of sheltered and supported employment is not a solution that would serve such groups well, and that it would be unfair to remove this option from the choices available to disabled people. 

Nid yw ymdrechion i gau ffatrïoedd Remploy yn newydd, ac er bod yn rhaid derbyn bod angen i Remploy newid er mwyn adlewyrchu’r newid yn amodau economaidd a’r farchnad lafur, credwn fod dewisiadau eraill yn lle cau ffatrïoedd sy’n gwasanaethu pobl sydd ymhlith y mwyaf agored i niwed a dan anfantais yn y farchnad lafur. Mae’r dystiolaeth sydd ar gael i ni’n awgrymu nad yw cau cyflogaeth warchodol yn ddatrysiad a fyddai’n gwasanaethu grwpiau o’r fath yn dda, ac y byddai’n annheg i dynnu’r opsiwn hwn oddi ar y dewisiadau sydd ar gael i bobl anabl.

However, we believe that there is substantial scope to improve the way that Remploy factories operate, from adapting to new markets and reviewing the way that disabled people are engaged in their management, to how skills development is embedded in their day-to-day operations. In anticipation of discussions with the UK Government, I have asked my officials to work closely with other Welsh Government departments to develop comprehensive proposals that take into account the need to modernise and change Remploy in this sense, balanced against the needs of its employees, their families and the communities in which Remploy factories are located.

Fodd bynnag, credwn fod lle sylweddol i wella’r ffordd y mae ffatrïoedd Remploy yn gweithredu, o addasu i farchnadoedd newydd ac adolygu’r ffordd y mae pobl anabl yn cymryd rhan yn eu rheolaeth, i sut y mae datblygu sgiliau wedi’i wreiddio yn eu gweithrediadau o ddydd i ddydd. Gan ragweld trafodaethau gyda Llywodraeth y DU, rwyf wedi gofyn i’m swyddogion i weithio’n agos gydag adrannau eraill Llywodraeth Cymru i ddatblygu cynigion cynhwysfawr sy’n ystyried yr angen i foderneiddio a newid Remploy yn yr ystyr hwn, wedi’i gydbwyso yn erbyn anghenion ei weithwyr, eu teuluoedd a’r cymunedau lle mae ffatrïoedd Remploy wedi’u lleoli.

There have been protests at various Remploy factories, and I know that many Assembly Members have supported factory employees in their efforts to voice their concerns and state their opposition to closures. In the coming weeks and months, I will continue to meet with Remploy factory employees and their representatives to listen to their concerns and suggestions. This will help us to ensure that our officials are looking to develop alternative options for Remploy factories in Wales to provide appropriate, meaningful and effective routes to employment for disabled people.

Bu protestiadau mewn nifer o ffatrïoedd Remploy, a gwn fod nifer o Aelodau’r Cynulliad wedi cefnogi gweithwyr ffatri yn eu hymdrechion i leisio eu pryderon ac i ddatgan eu gwrthwynebiad i gau’r ffatrïoedd. Yn yr wythnosau a’r misoedd nesaf, byddaf yn parhau i gwrdd â gweithwyr ffatrïoedd Remploy a’u cynrychiolwyr i wrando ar eu pryderon a’u hawgrymiadau. Bydd hyn yn ein helpu i sicrhau bod ein swyddogion yn edrych i ddatblygu opsiynau er mwyn i ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru ddarparu llwybrau priodol, ystyrlon ac effeithiol i gyflogaeth ar gyfer pobl anabl.

However, the responsibility for Remploy lies with the UK Government’s Department for Work and Pensions. The Welsh Government has accepted an invitation by the UK Minister for disabled people to participate in an inter-governmental working group on disability. I anticipate that the first meeting will take place in the near future, and I intend to raise the issue of Remploy factories during that meeting.

Fodd bynnag, Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau Llywodraeth y DU sy’n gyfrifol am Remploy. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi derbyn gwahoddiad gan Weinidog y DU ar gyfer pobl anabl i gymryd rhan mewn gweithgor rhynglywodraethol ar anabledd. Rhagwelaf y cynhelir y cyfarfod cyntaf yn y dyfodol agos, ac yr wyf yn bwriadu codi’r mater o ffatrïoedd Remploy yn ystod y cyfarfod hwnnw.

I hope that this provides an outline of recent developments with respect to specialist employment support for disabled people, especially on the issue of Remploy factories in Wales. I intend to keep the Cabinet and Assembly Members updated on significant developments as they arise.

Gobeithio bod hyn yn rhoi amlinelliad o’r datblygiadau diweddar mewn perthynas â chymorth cyflogaeth arbenigol i bobl anabl, yn enwedig ar y mater o ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru. Bwriadaf roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf i’r Cabinet ac i Aelodau’r Cynulliad ar ddatblygiadau sylweddol wrth iddynt godi.

Mark Isherwood: Thank you for your statement, Minister, much of which we agree with, although there are some parts that we wish to scrutinise a little further. You referred to the Government consultation that was launched shortly after the review was published in June—the consultation ran from 15 July until 17 October. I am sure that many Members, as I did, went to press calling on people in their area to contribute to that consultation, especially people working for Remploy, local people and organisations affected. The UK Government told us that there would be a series of consultation events running from 12 to 21 September. What action did the Welsh Government take to secure a contribution to those events, and is the Minister aware of any of those events having been held in Wales? I hope and trust that they would have been.

Mark Isherwood: Diolch i chi am eich datganiad, Weinidog. Rydym yn cytuno â llawer ohono, er bod yna rai rhannau y dymunwn graffu arnynt ychydig ymhellach. Cyfeiriasoch at ymgynghoriad y Llywodraeth, a lansiwyd yn fuan ar ôl cyhoeddiad yr adolygiad ym mis Mehefin—bu’r ymgynghoriad yn rhedeg o 15 Gorffennaf tan 17 Hydref. Yr wyf yn siŵr yr aeth nifer o Aelodau, fel yr es i, i’r cyfryngau i alw ar bobl yn eu hardaloedd i gyfrannu at yr ymgynghoriad hwnnw, yn enwedig pobl oedd yn gweithio i Remploy, pobl leol a sefydliadau yr effeithir arnynt. Dywedodd Llywodraeth y DU wrthym y byddai cyfres o ddigwyddiadau ymgynghori yn rhedeg o 12 i 21 Medi. Pa gamau y cymerodd Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau cyfraniad at y digwyddiadau hynny, ac a yw’r Gweinidog yn ymwybodol bod unrhyw un o’r digwyddiadau hynny wedi cael eu cynnal yng Nghymru? Gobeithiaf a hyderaf eu bod nhw wedi.

You state that you welcome the emphasis on greater independence and self-determination for disabled people, and, of course, we all support the social model for disability, which recognises that people are disabled by society, not by themselves, that each has individual needs and abilities and that Remploy is part of the necessary range of provision to give them the opportunities that they need and deserve. In reality, Remploy enables disabled people to come to work.

Rydych yn datgan eich bod yn croesawu’r pwyslais ar fwy o annibyniaeth ac ymreolaeth ar gyfer pobl anabl, ac, wrth gwrs, yr ydym i gyd yn cefnogi’r model cymdeithasol ar gyfer anabledd, sy’n cydnabod bod pobl yn cael eu hanablu gan gymdeithas, nid gan eu hunain, bod gan bob un anghenion a galluoedd unigol a bod Remploy yn rhan o ystod angenrheidiol o ddarpariaeth i roi iddynt y cyfleoedd sydd eu hangen arnynt, ac y maen nhw’n ei haeddu. Mewn gwirionedd, mae Remploy yn galluogi pobl anabl i ddod i weithio.

You say that employees have been unsettled by the potential implications of the Sayce review, particularly the possibility of factory closures. In fact, I supported successful action to stop plans to close Wrexham’s Remploy factory under the previous UK Labour Government. I wrote to Remploy at the time stating that I fully appreciated that many disabled people would prefer to work in mainstream employment alongside non-disabled people, rather than working in sheltered workshops, provided that barriers to access and inclusion were removed. However, the individual needs of many employees can only be met in a sheltered and accessible working environment.

Rydych yn dweud bod gweithwyr yn teimlo’n ansicr o ganlyniad i oblygiadau posibl adolygiad Sayce, yn enwedig y posibilrwydd o gau ffatrïoedd. Yn wir, cefnogais weithredu llwyddiannus i atal cynlluniau i gau ffatri Remploy Wrecsam o dan Lywodraeth Lafur flaenorol y DU. Ysgrifennais at Remploy ar y pryd gan ddweud fy mod yn llwyr werthfawrogi y byddai’n well gan nifer o bobl anabl weithio mewn cyflogaeth brif ffrwd ochr yn ochr â phobl nad ydynt yn anabl, yn hytrach na gweithio mewn gweithdai gwarchodol, ar yr amod y diddymir rhwystrau i fynediad a chynhwysiant. Fodd bynnag, yn achos rhai gweithwyr, dim ond mewn amgylchedd gwaith gwarchodol a hygyrch y gellir bodloni eu hanghenion unigol.

You state that you and the Welsh Government disagree with factory closures. Therefore, how do you respond to the suggestion by the Sayce review that, by making access to work more efficient and increasing the proportion of the current budget spent on it, the UK Government could have increased the number of disabled people helped into work in 2009-10 from 65,000 to 100,000? Do you join me in welcoming the fact that the Sayce report does not recommend that Remploy factories be closed? Instead, it recommends that Remploy’s businesses should be reformed and freed from Government control, suggesting that employees in enterprise businesses should be offered expert business support to develop independent businesses where possible, and where not possible, or where employees want to work elsewhere, that disabled employees should be offered comprehensive support to find other employment. Given that one recommendation by the review is that Remploy factories could become social enterprises owned by workers free from Government control, what support could the Welsh Government give, alongside its broader support for social enterprises, through the Wales Co-operative Centre and otherwise, to such proposals for factories in Wales? What support, if any, could the Welsh Government provide in relation to the Sayce statement that the UK Government has not yet made any decisions, but that Remploy employment services could secure Government funds by competing for contracts by other providers?

Rydych yn dweud eich bod chi a Llywodraeth Cymru yn anghytuno â chau ffatrïoedd. Felly, sut ydych yn ymateb i’r awgrym gan yr adolygiad Sayce, sef, trwy wneud mynediad i weithio yn fwy effeithlon a chynyddu cyfran y gyllideb bresennol sy’n cael ei wario ar hynny, gallai Llywodraeth y DU fod wedi cynyddu nifer y bobl anabl a helpwyd i mewn i gwaith yn 2009-10 o 65,000 i 100,000? A ymunwch â mi i groesawu’r ffaith nad yw adroddiad Sayce yn argymell y dylid cau ffatrïoedd Remploy? Yn hytrach, mae’n argymell y dylid diwygio busnesau Remploy a’u rhyddhau o reolaeth y Llywodraeth, gan awgrymu y dylid cynnig cymorth busnes arbenigol i gyflogeion mewn busnesau menter i ddatblygu busnesau annibynnol lle bo’n bosibl, a lle nad yw’n bosibl, neu lle mae cyflogeion eisiau gweithio mewn mannau eraill, y dylid cynnig cymorth cynhwysfawr i weithwyr anabl i ddod o hyd i gyflogaeth arall. O ystyried mai un argymhelliad gan yr adolygiad yw y gallai ffatrïoedd Remploy ddod yn fentrau cymdeithasol sy’n eiddo i weithwyr ac yn rhydd o reolaeth y Llywodraeth, pa gymorth gallai Llywodraeth Cymru ei roi, ochr yn ochr â’i chymorth ehangach ar gyfer mentrau cymdeithasol, drwy Ganolfan Gydweithredol Cymru ac fel arall, i gynigion o’r fath ar gyfer ffatrïoedd yng Nghymru? Pa gymorth, os o gwbl, y gallai Llywodraeth Cymru ei ddarparu mewn perthynas â datganiad Sayce nad yw Llywodraeth y DU wedi gwneud unrhyw benderfyniadau eto, ond y gallai gwasanaethau cyflogaeth Remploy sicrhau arian y Llywodraeth drwy gystadlu am gontractau gan ddarparwyr eraill?

I conclude by welcoming the fact that Maria Millar MP, the UK Minister for Disabled People, has invited you to participate in an inter-governmental working group on disability, and I would be grateful if you could confirm that you will keep the Assembly informed as matters progress.

Gorffennaf drwy groesawu’r ffaith bod Maria Millar AS, Gweinidog y DU ar gyfer pobl anabl, wedi eich gwahodd i gymryd rhan yn y gweithgor rhynglywodraethol ar anabledd, a byddem yn ddiolchgar pe gallech gadarnhau y byddwch yn rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf yn rheolaidd i’r Cynulliad.

Leighton Andrews: We have made our views known to the UK Government during the consultation that has been held. We gave our evidence to the Sayce review. However, at the end of the day, these are matters for the Department for Work and Pensions. There have been successful examples of Remploy businesses moving into new markets, which have helped to guarantee a future for the factories in a number of areas, and also to improve the quality of work available for Remploy workers. We, as a Government, and local government in Wales have sought to work in co-operation with Remploy factories and to engage with them in the delivery of certain kinds of services and work. In the past, the Government has explored opportunities for social enterprise development in respect of Remploy factories, and we have talked in the past with the Wales Co-operative Centre and others about what scope might exist for such a transformation. However, the reality is that the Remploy factories require Government investment—continuing Government subsidy. We want to see that investment continue, and I want to state again our opposition to the closure of Remploy factories in Wales.

Leighton Andrews: Rydym wedi mynegi ein barn i Lywodraeth y DU yn ystod yr ymgynghoriad a gynhaliwyd. Rhoesom ein tystiolaeth i’r adolygiad Sayce. Fodd bynnag, ar ddiwedd y dydd, mae’r rhain yn faterion ar gyfer yr Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau. Bu enghreifftiau llwyddiannus o fusnesau Remploy yn symud i mewn i farchnadoedd newydd, sydd wedi helpu i warantu dyfodol i’r ffatrïoedd mewn nifer o ardaloedd, a hefyd i wella ansawdd y gwaith sydd ar gael ar gyfer gweithwyr Remploy. Rydym ni, fel Llywodraeth, a llywodraeth leol yng Nghymru wedi ceisio gweithio mewn cydweithrediad â ffatrïoedd Remploy ac i ymgysylltu â nhw wth ddarparu mathau penodol o wasanaethau a gwaith. Yn y gorffennol, mae’r Llywodraeth wedi edrych ar gyfleoedd ar gyfer datblygu mentrau cymdeithasol mewn perthynas â ffatrïoedd Remploy, ac rydym wedi trafod yn y gorffennol gyda Chanolfan Gydweithredol Cymru ac eraill ynghylch pa sgôp sydd efallai’n bodoli ar gyfer trawsnewid o’r fath. Fodd bynnag, y realiti yw bod angen buddsoddiad y Llywodraeth ar ffatrïoedd Remploy—cymhorthdal parhaus y Llywodraeth. Yr ydym am weld y buddsoddiad hwnnw’n parhau, ac yr wyf am ddatgan eto ein gwrthwynebiad i gau ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru.

David Rees: Minister, I welcome the statement from the Welsh Government, particularly the strong emphasis on keeping the Remploy factories open in Wales. I have a Remploy factory in my constituency, as I know do many others in the Chamber. I have met representatives of the workforce and the managers. What discussions have you had with representatives in preparing your response to the Government? You mentioned that you are going to review the businesses within Remploy; will you be calling for a transparent audit of the businesses, so that they take an appropriate and correct direction in the future and are operated in a financially effective manner?

David Rees: Weinidog, croesawaf y datganiad gan Lywodraeth Cymru, yn enwedig y pwyslais cryf ar gadw ffatrïoedd Remploy ar agor yng Nghymru. Mae gennyf ffatri Remploy yn fy etholaeth i, fel y gwn fod gan nifer o rai eraill yn y Siambr. Cyfarfûm â chynrychiolwyr y gweithlu a’r rheolwyr. Pa drafodaethau a gawsoch gyda chynrychiolwyr wrth baratoi eich ymateb i’r Llywodraeth? Soniasoch eich bod yn mynd i adolygu busnesau Remploy; a fyddwch yn galw am archwiliad tryloyw o’r busnesau, fel eu bod yn dilyn cyfeiriad priodol a chywir yn y dyfodol ac yn cael eu gweithredu mewn ffordd effeithiol yn ariannol?

Leighton Andrews: The Member for Aberavon raises some important issues. We have had concerns over time about the effective management of the Remploy factories in a number of areas. The issue of an audit of performance is one that we would want to look into and consider. We would want to ensure that the public subsidy that goes into Remploy is delivering for Wales and that the factories in Wales are getting a fair crack of the whip, in terms of the opportunities that may be available to develop further work. I have a meeting scheduled with the consortium of Remploy trade unions tomorrow and with other trade union representatives representing workers in Remploy factories over the forthcoming weeks, and I will keep him and the Assembly updated on developments as they arise.

Leighton Andrews: Mae’r Aelod dros Aberafan yn codi rhai materion pwysig. Cawsom bryderon dros amser am y rheolaeth effeithiol o ffatrïoedd Remploy mewn nifer o ardaloedd. Mae’r mater o archwilio perfformiad yn un y byddem am edrych arno ac ystyried. Byddem am sicrhau bod y cymhorthdal cyhoeddus sy’n mynd i Remploy yn cyflawni dros Gymru, a bod y ffatrïoedd yng Nghymru yn cael cyfle teg, o ran y cyfleoedd sydd efallai ar gael i ddatblygu gwaith pellach. Mae gennyf gyfarfod wedi’i drefnu gyda chonsortiwm undebau llafur Remploy yfory a gyda chynrychiolwyr undebau llafur eraill sy’n cynrychioli gweithwyr yn ffatrïoedd Remploy dros yr wythnosau i ddod, a byddaf yn ei ddiweddaru ef a’r Cynulliad ar y datblygiadau wrth iddynt godi.

Jocelyn Davies: Thank you for bringing forward this timely statement, Minister, and for clarifying the Government position, because as you know, there is no specific pledge for training for those with disabilities in your current programme for government. I am delighted that you are now committed to vigorously opposing any factory closures. I agree wholeheartedly that removing this option will not benefit those with disabilities.

Jocelyn Davies: Diolch ichi am gyflwyno’r datganiad amserol hwn, Weinidog, ac am egluro safbwynt y Llywodraeth, oherwydd fel y gwyddoch, nid oes unrhyw addewid penodol i hyfforddi pobl ag anableddau yn eich rhaglen lywodraethu bresennol. Yr wyf yn falch eich bod bellach yn ymrwymo’n frwd i wrthwynebu unrhyw gau ffatrïoedd. Cytunaf yn llwyr na fyddai dileu’r opsiwn hwn o fudd i’r rheini ag anableddau.

Do you agree that it is unacceptable that over half of those with disabilities in Wales are economically inactive and that the welfare changes that we are seeing will adversely affect this group, without offering any real alternatives? Although there is no doubt that many Remploy workers would take mainstream employment if it was available, I hope that you agree that there will always be a need for specialist supported employment.

A ydych yn cytuno ei bod yn annerbyniol bod dros hanner y rheini ag anableddau yng Nghymru yn anweithgar yn economaidd ac y bydd y newidiadau lles a welwn yn effeithio yn andwyol ar y grŵp hwn, heb gynnig unrhyw ddewisiadau eraill? Er nad oes unrhyw amheuaeth y byddai nifer o weithwyr Remploy yn cymryd cyflogaeth prif ffrwd os oedd ar gael, gobeithiaf eich bod yn cytuno y bydd wastad galw am gyflogaeth arbenigol â chymorth.

If you are considering the option of social enterprises, what the factories would benefit most from would be profitable work. Will you consider the potential of public procurement contracts for these factories, bearing in mind the ability to use the local and social clauses set down in the Inform to Involve toolkit, which I know that you know well?

Os ydych yn ystyried yr opsiwn mentrau cymdeithasol, yr hyn y byddai ffatrïoedd yn elwa fwyaf ohono yw gwaith proffidiol. A wnewch ystyried y potensial o gael contractau caffael cyhoeddus ar gyfer y ffatrïoedd hyn, gan gadw mewn cof y gallu i ddefnyddio cymalau cymdeithasol a lleol a nodwyd yn y pecyn cymorth Hysbysu i Ymrwymo, y gwn eich bod yn gyfarwydd iawn â nhw?

You are well aware of Plaid Cymru’s call for the devolution of responsibility and funding for the Remploy factories, and you have said in the past that you would consider it. We heard earlier from the First Minister that he also supports this stance—in fact, he said that he had already pressed for the devolution of Remploy. Did you know that and, if so, why did you not include that in your statement? Do you now support that as a concept? Lastly, when do you expect to be able to update us next on this important issue?

Yr ydych yn ymwybodol o alwad Plaid Cymru am ddatganoli cyfrifoldeb a chyllid ar gyfer ffatrïoedd Remploy, ac yr ydych wedi dweud yn y gorffennol y byddech yn ei ystyried. Clywsom yn gynharach gan y Prif Weinidog ei fod hefyd yn cefnogi’r safbwynt hwn—yn wir, dywedodd ei fod eisoes wedi pwyso am ddatganoli Remploy. A oeddech chi’n gwybod hynny ac, os felly, pam na wnaethoch chi gynnwys hynny yn eich datganiad? A ydych bellach yn cefnogi hynny fel cysyniad? Yn olaf, pryd ydych yn disgwyl gallu rhoi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni ar y mater pwysig hwn?

Leighton Andrews: Funnily enough, Ministers do talk to one another, and I was aware that the First Minister had raised these issues with the Secretary of State. The issue, from our point of view, is that, if there was to be any devolution of responsibility or finance for Remploy factories in Wales, we would want to be assured that we were getting the genuine subsidy that currently underpins those factories. We would not wish to be short-changed. That goes to the heart of the question asked by my colleague the Member for Aberavon in terms of the need to audit the management of Remploy and its performance and, of course, to have some transparency in any changes that might be seen as a result. I would not want to take on in my department’s budget—I am sure that the Member would agree with me—responsibility without the appropriate finances to go with it.

Leighton Andrews: Yn rhyfedd ddigon, mae Gweinidogion yn siarad â’i gilydd, ac yr oeddwn yn ymwybodol bod y Prif Weinidog wedi codi’r materion hyn gyda’r Ysgrifennydd Gwladol. Y mater, o’n safbwynt ni, yw, os oedd unrhyw ddatganoli cyfrifoldeb neu gyllid ar gyfer ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru, byddem am fod yn sicr ein bod yn cael y cymhorthdal gwirioneddol sy’n sail i’r ffatrïoedd hynny ar hyn o bryd. Ni hoffem gael ein twyllo. Mae hynny’n mynd at wraidd y cwestiwn gofynnodd fy nghyd-Aelod yr Aelod dros Aberafan o ran yr angen i archwilio rheolaeth Remploy a’i berfformiad ac, wrth gwrs, i gael rhywfaint o dryloywder mewn unrhyw newidiadau a allai godi o ganlyniad. Ni fyddwn am ymgymryd yng nghyllideb fy adran i—yr wyf yn siŵr y byddai’r Aelod yn cytuno â mi—â chyfrifoldeb heb y cyllid priodol i fynd â hynny.

On the other issues that she raised, many existing Welsh Government programmes support training for disabled workers at present, and I do not think that they need to be spelled out in the programme for government to emphasise that. We are keen to ensure that the UK Government takes its responsibilities seriously, as the Department for Work and Pensions has a responsibility in this area and for benefits. We do not see it as our role to pick up the bill for changes that are being implemented at a UK level by the UK Government as a result of its welfare reform agenda. I do not think that that would be a responsible way for us to continue.

Ar y materion eraill a godwyd ganddi, mae sawl rhaglen bresennol Llywodraeth Cymru yn cefnogi hyfforddiant ar gyfer gweithwyr anabl ar hyn o bryd, ac nid wyf yn credu bod angen iddynt gael eu manylu yn y rhaglen lywodraethu i bwysleisio hynny. Yr ydym yn awyddus i sicrhau bod Llywodraeth y DU yn cymryd ei chyfrifoldebau o ddifrif, gan fod cyfrifoldeb gan yr Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau yn y maes hwn ac am fudd-daliadau. Nid ydym yn ei gweld fel ein rôl ni i dalu’r bil am newidiadau sydd ar waith ar lefel y DU gan Lywodraeth y DU o ganlyniad i’w hagenda diwygio lles. Ni chredaf y byddai hynny’n ffordd gyfrifol inni barhau.

In respect of public procurement contracts, she and I are well acquainted with the workings of the Can Do toolkit. We are committed to the use of community benefit clauses. We also have discretion under EU legislation in respect of sheltered workshops, and Remploy factories in Wales have benefited from work from the Welsh Government as a result.

O ran contractau caffael cyhoeddus, mae hi a minnau’n gyfarwydd â gweithrediad y pecyn cymorth Gallu Gwneud. Rydym wedi ymrwymo i ddefnydd cymalau budd cymunedol. Hefyd mae gennym ddisgresiwn o dan ddeddfwriaeth yr UE mewn perthynas â gweithdai gwarchodol, ac mae ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru wedi elwa o’r gwaith gan Lywodraeth Cymru o ganlyniad.

Mike Hedges: I know that many in the Chamber, me included, have been contacted by concerned constituents over the future of Remploy factories. For decades, those factories have been a beacon of hope and fairness to the disabled in our communities. Despite that, the future of many factories in Wales remains uncertain, with the UK Government determined to make radical changes to the way that Remploy factories are funded. It seems that no consideration is being shown to the most vulnerable in our society.

Mike Hedges: Gwn y cysylltwyd â nifer yn y Siambr, yn cynnwys fi fy hun, gan etholwyr pryderus ynghylch dyfodol y ffatrïoedd Remploy. Ers degawdau, mae’r ffatrïoedd hynny wedi bod yn esiampl o obaith a thegwch i bobl anabl yn ein cymunedau. Er hynny, mae dyfodol llawer o ffatrïoedd yng Nghymru yn parhau’n ansicr, gyda Llywodraeth y DU yn benderfynol o wneud newidiadau radical i’r ffordd y mae ffatrïoedd Remploy yn cael eu hariannu. Mae’n ymddangos nad oes unrhyw ystyriaeth yn cael ei roi i’r bobl fwyaf bregus yn ein cymdeithas.

3.00 p.m.

The impact that closure will have on local communities and disabled individuals is very serious. What is even more alarming is that this is happening at a time when a number of people are losing disability living allowance—so people are not only losing allowances, but the opportunity for employment. [Interruption.] It is not scaremongering, it is a fact. Do you therefore agree, Minister, that in order for the Remploy factories in Wales to have a future, it is vital that the UK Government takes its own advice and ensures that as many public sector procurement contracts as possible are awarded to Remploy factories to allow them to continue and succeed?

Mae’r effaith bydd cau yn ei gael ar gymunedau lleol ac unigolion anabl yn ddifrifol iawn. Yr hyn sydd hyd yn oed yn fwy brawychus yw bod hyn yn digwydd ar adeg pan fo nifer o bobl yn colli lwfans byw i’r anabl—felly mae pobl nid yn unig yn colli lwfansau, ond y cyfle i gael cyflogaeth. [Torri ar draws.] Nid codi bwganod yw hyn, mae’n ffaith. A ydych yn cytuno felly, Weinidog, er mwyn i’r ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru gael dyfodol, mae’n hanfodol bod Llywodraeth y DU yn cymryd ei chyngor ei hun a sicrhau bod cymaint o gontractau caffael y sector cyhoeddus ag y bo modd yn cael eu dyfarnu i ffatrïoedd Remploy er mwyn caniatáu iddynt barhau a llwyddo?

Leighton Andrews: My colleague, the Member for Swansea East, raises very important issues. Governments have the ability to ensure that work is given to specialist supported workshops under EU law, and those opportunities should be taken. We have been able as a Welsh Government to do that, and I am sure that the Member will be familiar with work that has been carried out in Swansea, for example, in that regard. Indeed, the factory in Dinas in my own constituency is also benefiting from public sector contracts and work in the field of e-cycling. We have demonstrated our commitment and we know that the public service in Wales, including the health service and local authorities in Wales, are aware of what can be done through Remploy factories, and we certainly look to the UK Government to fulfil its side of the bargain. My colleague is also right to raise the issue of the welfare reform agenda and the concerns that that is causing for many of our constituents across Wales.

Leighton Andrews: Mae fy nghydweithiwr yr Aelod dros Ddwyrain Abertawe yn codi materion pwysig iawn. Medda Llywodraethau ar y gallu i sicrhau bod gwaith yn cael ei roi i weithdai arbenigol dan gymorth dan gyfraith yr UE, a dylid cymryd y cyfleoedd hynny. Fel Llywodraeth Cymru, yr ydym wedi gallu gwneud hynny, ac yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yr Aelod yn gyfarwydd â’r gwaith sydd wedi cael ei wneud yn Abertawe, er enghraifft, yn hynny o beth. Yn wir, mae’r ffatri yn Ninas yn fy etholaeth i hefyd yn elwa o gontractau’r sector cyhoeddus ac yn gweithio ym maes e-gylchu. Yr ydym wedi dangos ein hymrwymiad a gwyddom fod y gwasanaeth cyhoeddus yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys y gwasanaeth iechyd ac awdurdodau lleol yng Nghymru, yn ymwybodol o’r hyn y gellir ei wneud drwy ffatrïoedd Remploy, ac yr ydym yn sicr yn disgwyl i Lywodraeth y DU gyflawni ei hochr hi o’r fargen. Mae fy nghydweithiwr hefyd yn iawn i godi’r agenda diwygio lles a’r pryderon mae hwnnw’n achosi i lawer o’n hetholwyr ledled Cymru.

Eluned Parrott: I, too, thank the Minister for this update, which gives us a clear perspective on his approach to the negotiations with the UK Government on this issue. I also agree that there is much to be applauded in the Sayce review. We would all wish to see a society in which people with disabilities have equal access to opportunities, including opportunities to work, but, sadly, the truth is that, in the experience of many disabled people, we have not reached that point yet, and, for that reason, there is a strong case for supported employment to be continued in some form.

Eluned Parrott: Diolchaf i, hefyd, i’r Gweinidog am y diweddariad hwn, sy’n rhoi persbectif clir inni ar ei agwedd at y trafodaethau negodi gyda Llywodraeth y DU ar y mater hwn. Yr wyf hefyd yn cytuno bod llawer i’w ganmol yn adolygiad Sayce. Byddem i gyd am weld cymdeithas lle mae pobl ag anableddau yn cael mynediad cyfartal i gyfleoedd, gan gynnwys cyfleoedd i weithio, ond, yn anffodus, y gwir amdani yw, ym mhrofiad llawer o bobl anabl, nad ydym wedi cyrraedd y pwynt hwnnw eto, ac, am y rheswm hwnnw, mae achos cryf dros barhau cyflogaeth dan gymorth ar ryw ffurf.

I therefore welcome your participation in the inter-governmental working group on disability. Could you clarify the extent to which you expect this forum to focus on skills and employment issues? If that is not a major driver of this particular forum, could you clarify whether other Welsh Ministers are also likely to take part in it?

Felly, croesawaf eich cyfranogiad yn y gweithgor rhynglywodraethol ar anabledd. A allech egluro i ba raddau yr ydych yn disgwyl i’r fforwm hwn ganolbwyntio ar sgiliau a materion cyflogaeth? Os nad yw hynny’n sbardun pwysig i’r fforwm penodol hwn, a allech chi egluro a yw Gweinidogion Cymru eraill hefyd yn debygol o gymryd rhan ynddo?

Many of us in this Chamber would also warmly welcome your statement that you disagree with any factory closures in Wales. However, you go on to say that Remploy must change. While I welcome suggested moves towards employing disabled people in a wider variety of roles within Remploy, particularly in management, I am sure that you will recognise that the idea of change in and of itself can lead to uncertainty and anxiety for workers. My second question to you would therefore be: could you outline what plans you have to consult with Remploy employees on the kind of changes that you would like to see?

Byddai llawer ohonom yn y Siambr hon hefyd yn croesawu eich datganiad eich bod yn anghytuno â chau unrhyw ffatri yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, ewch yn eich blaen i ddweud bod yn rhaid i Remploy newid. Er fy mod yn croesawu’r camau a awgrymwyd i gyflogi pobl anabl mewn amrywiaeth ehangach o rolau o fewn Remploy, yn enwedig ym maes rheoli, yr wyf yn siŵr y byddwch yn cydnabod y gall y syniad o newid ei hun arwain at ansicrwydd a phryder i weithwyr. Fy ail gwestiwn i chi, felly, yw: a allech amlinellu pa gynlluniau sydd gennych i ymgynghori â chyflogeion Remploy ar y math o newidiadau yr hoffech eu gweld?

Finally, I thank the Minister for undertaking to keep this Chamber informed of progress, and look forward to his future statements.

Yn olaf, hoffwn ddiolch i’r Gweinidog am ymgymryd i roi gwybod i’r Siambr hon am gynnydd, ac edrychaf ymlaen at ei ddatganiadau yn y dyfodol.

Leighton Andrews: I am not sure that I would refer in this context to the discussions with the UK Government as ‘negotiations’. Responsibility for Remploy clearly lies with the UK Government and the Department for Work and Pensions, but we will make clear to the UK Government, through the appropriate channels, and through our response to its consultation, our view of the continuing importance of Remploy factories in Wales. In respect of the inter-governmental group that is being established by the UK Minister, I accepted, I think in August, an invitation to join that group, and I wrote again yesterday saying that I looked forward to receiving full details of the scope of the activity of the group in the near future. In respect of the workforce, and changes in the future, we would want to continue discussions with the trade unions representing the workforce of Remploy, and, as I said earlier, I have a meeting scheduled with the consortium of Remploy trade unions tomorrow, and with other representatives of trade unions who have responsibility for the workforce in Remploy factories in Wales over forthcoming weeks.

Leighton Andrews: Nid wyf yn siŵr y byddwn yn cyfeirio yn y cyd-destun hwn at y trafodaethau gyda Llywodraeth y DU fel ‘trafodaethau negodi’. Mae’n glir mai cyfrifoldeb Llywodraeth y DU a’r Adran Gwaith a Phensiynau yw Remploy, ond byddwn yn ei gwneud yn glir i Lywodraeth y DU, drwy’r sianeli priodol a thrwy ein hymateb i’w hymgynghoriad, beth yw ein barn am bwysigrwydd parhaus ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru. O ran y grŵp rhynglywodraethol sy’n cael ei sefydlu gan Weinidog y Deyrnas Unedig, yr wyf yn meddwl imi dderbyn gwahoddiad ym mis Awst i ymuno â’r grŵp hwnnw, ac ysgrifennais eto ddoe yn dweud fy mod yn edrych ymlaen at dderbyn y manylion llawn am gwmpas gweithgaredd y grŵp yn y dyfodol agos. O ran y gweithlu a newidiadau yn y dyfodol, byddem yn dymuno parhau’r  trafod gyda’r undebau llafur sy’n cynrychioli gweithlu Remploy, ac, fel y dywedais yn gynharach, mae gennyf gyfarfod a drefnwyd gyda’r consortiwm o undebau llafur Remploy yfory, a gyda chynrychiolwyr eraill o undebau llafur sydd â chyfrifoldeb am weithlu ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru dros yr wythnosau sydd i ddod.

Mick Antoniw: As a long-standing GMB member, I feel a close affinity with my GMB comrades in Remploy factories. One of the factories in Porth employs about 15 people from my constituency, some of whom have worked there for many years of their lives. One man has worked there for 45 years and he fears that, in light of the difficult employment situation in the area, his employment prospects will be zero if he is put out of work from the Remploy factory.

Mick Antoniw: Fel aelod GMB er tro byd, yr wyf yn teimlo cysylltiad agos gyda fy nghymrodyr GMB mewn ffatrïoedd Remploy. Mae un o’r ffatrïoedd ym Mhorth yn cyflogi tua 15 o bobl o’m hetholaeth i ac mae rhai ohonynt wedi gweithio yno am gyfran helaeth o’u bywydau. Mae un dyn wedi gweithio yno am 45 mlynedd ac mae’n ofni, yn wyneb y sefyllfa gyflogaeth anodd yn yr ardal, y bydd dim gobaith am gyflogaeth ganddo os yw’n cael ei ddiswyddo o’r ffatri Remploy.

Another of my constituents has worked at Remploy in Porth for over 40 years, and he stands as an example of how Remploy can support those who cannot be supported elsewhere. This man has significant learning difficulties and requires carers to get him out of bed each morning and to put him to bed in the evening. Every morning, a taxi comes to collect him for work and to take him home at the end of his shift. There is simply no way that he would be able to make his own way to work without that sort of support. His duties at Remploy in Porth involve such tasks as sweeping up, moving pallets and other similar support work. He requires a great deal of support throughout the day, but, given the nature of the factory, he is provided with this help constantly, from his colleagues and from the managerial set-up. It is therefore difficult to see how any non-specialist employer would be able to give such levels of support, particularly if profit maximisation is the driving force of the firm. It is unlikely that he would experience the warmth and sense of comradeship that he finds at Remploy.

Mae un arall o’m hetholwyr wedi gweithio yn Remploy ym Mhorth ers dros 40 mlynedd, ac mae ef yn enghraifft o sut y gall Remploy gefnogi’r rhai na ellir eu cefnogi mewn man arall. Mae gan y gŵr hwn anawsterau dysgu sylweddol ac mae angen gofalwyr arno i’w gael ef allan o’r gwely bob bore ac i’w roi yn y gwely yn y nos. Bob bore, bydd tacsi yn dod i’w gasglu a’i gludo i’r gwaith ac i fynd ag ef adref ar ddiwedd ei shifft. Nid oes dim ffordd o gwbl y byddai’n gallu mynd i’r gwaith ar ei liwt ei hun heb y fath gefnogaeth. Mae ei ddyletswyddau yn Remploy ym Mhorth yn cynnwys tasgau fel ysgubo, symud paledau a gwaith cymorth tebyg arall. Mae arno angen llawer iawn o gefnogaeth drwy gydol y dydd, ond, o ystyried natur y ffatri, mae’n cael yr help hwn yn gyson gan ei gydweithwyr a’r trefniadau rheolaethol. Felly, mae’n anodd gweld sut y byddai unrhyw gyflogwr anarbenigol yn gallu rhoi’r fath lefelau o gymorth iddo, yn enwedig os mai amlhau elw sy’n gyrru’r cwmni. Mae’n annhebygol y byddai ef yn profi’r cynhesrwydd a’r ymdeimlad o gyfeillgarwch mae’n eu cael yn Remploy.

The Presiding Officer: Order. Are you coming to a question for the Minister?

Y Llywydd: Trefn. A ydych yn dynesu at gwestiwn i’r Gweinidog?

Mick Antoniw: Yes. This issue has been fought strong and hard by the GMB trade union. Could the Minister therefore confirm the extent of contact and work that he has had with the GMB trade union and what further meetings and campaign work he envisages taking up with the GMB trade union?

Mick Antoniw: Ydw. Mae undeb llafur y GMB wedi brwydro’n gryf ac egr ar hyn. Felly, a all y Gweinidog gadarnhau graddau’r cyswllt y mae wedi’i gael a’i gydweithio gydag undeb llafur y GMB a pha gyfarfodydd a gwaith ymgyrchu pellach mae’n rhagweld y bydd yn ymgymryd â hwy gydag undeb llafur y GMB?

Leighton Andrews: The Member for Pontypridd illustrates graphically the human dimension of Remploy factories. I may well have met the constituents of his who work at the factory in my constituency and to which he referred. We are all aware of the specialist support that is given within Remploy factories, particularly to workers who have learning difficulties. That level of support is unlikely to be found in other employment environments, and therefore we want to see them continue. He is right to stress the important role played by the GMB and other unions, such as Unite, in representing the workforce in the Remploy factories. I have had meetings over the summer with local representatives at that particular factory, given that it is in my constituency, and we will continue to meet the trade unions at a national level and work with them to try to protect the position of Remploy factories in Wales.

Leighton Andrews: Mae’r Aelod dros Bontypridd yn darlunio dimensiwn dynol ffatrïoedd Remploy yn fyw iawn. Efallai fy mod wedi cwrdd â’i etholwyr sy’n gweithio yn y ffatri yn fy etholaeth y cyfeiriodd atynt. Yr ydym i gyd yn ymwybodol o’r cymorth arbenigol sy’n cael ei roi o fewn ffatrïoedd Remploy, yn arbennig i weithwyr sydd ag anawsterau dysgu. Mae’n annhebygol y caiff y lefel honno o gefnogaeth ei chanfod mewn amgylcheddau cyflogaeth eraill, ac felly yr ydym am weld parhad y ffatrïoedd. Mae’n iawn i bwysleisio’r rôl bwysig mae'r GMB ac undebau eraill, fel Unite, yn ei chwarae wrth gynrychioli gweithlu ffatrïoedd Remploy. Yr wyf wedi cael cyfarfodydd dros yr haf gyda chynrychiolwyr lleol yn y ffatri benodol honno, gan ei bod yn fy etholaeth i, a byddwn yn parhau i gwrdd â’r undebau llafur ar lefel genedlaethol a gweithio gyda hwy i geisio amddiffyn sefyllfa ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Thank you for your statement today, Minister. Some two to two and a half years ago I had the pleasure of visiting the Aberdare Remploy factory to see the excellent work that goes on there. From that meeting, I brought a delegation to the Assembly to meet the then Minister with responsibility for public procurement, Jane Hutt, in respect of what assistance could be afforded to that factory. Are you able, on the back of your statement today, to provide a breakdown to Members of what support the Welsh Government has been able to provide via contracts and public procurement opportunities to Remploy factories in Wales? I heard you, in response to the Member for South Wales East, talk about the Can Do Toolkit, but it would be helpful to this debate to have a breakdown and an analysis of what support the Welsh Government has been able to provide, over successive years, by placing work with Remploy factories.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Diolch ichi am eich datganiad heddiw, Weinidog. Ryw ddwy flynedd i ddwy flynedd a hanner yn ôl cefais y pleser o ymweld â ffatri Remploy Aberdâr i weld y gwaith ardderchog sy’n cael ei wneud yno. O’r cyfarfod hwnnw, deuthum â dirprwyaeth i’r Cynulliad i gwrdd â’r Gweinidog sy’n gyfrifol am gaffael cyhoeddus, Jane Hutt, yng nghyswllt pa gymorth y gellid ei roi i’r ffatri hwnnw. Yn dilyn eich datganiad heddiw, a allwch ddarparu dadansoddiad i Aelodau o’r cymorth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gallu ei ddarparu drwy gontractau a chyfleoedd caffael cyhoeddus i ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru? Fe’ch clywais, yn eich ymateb i’r Aelod dros Ddwyrain De Cymru, yn siarad am y Pecyn Cymorth Gallu Gwneud, ond byddai o help i’r drafodaeth hon i gael manylion a dadansoddiad o ba gymorth y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi gallu ei darparu, dros flynyddoedd olynol, trwy osod gwaith gyda ffatrïoedd Remploy.

Leighton Andrews: As I said in answer to the Member for South Wales East, there are a number of ways in which the Welsh Government has supported Remploy factories in Wales in the past. There are a number of routes open for us under legislation to do that, for example under EU legislation, and work has been given by a number of public sector organisations to different Remploy factories in Wales. A significant variety of work has been provided. We have factories that have been engaged in health service work and work for other parts of the public sector. We have demonstrated our commitment. We believe that Remploy factories play an important role in the life of many communities in Wales, and we will continue to give them that support.

Leighton Andrews: Fel y dywedais wrth ateb yr Aelod dros Ddwyrain De Cymru, mae yna nifer o ffyrdd y mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cefnogi ffatrïoedd Remploy yng Nghymru yn y gorffennol. Mae nifer o lwybrau yn agored inni drwy ddeddfwriaeth i wneud hynny, er enghraifft o dan ddeddfwriaeth yr UE, ac mae gwaith wedi cael ei roi gan nifer o sefydliadau sector cyhoeddus i ffatrïoedd Remploy gwahanol yng Nghymru. Mae amrywiaeth sylweddol o waith wedi cael ei ddarparu. Mae gennym ffatrïoedd sydd wedi bod yn ymwneud â gwaith ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd a rhannau eraill o’r sector cyhoeddus. Yr ydym wedi dangos ein hymrwymiad. Yr ydym yn credu bod ffatrïoedd Remploy yn chwarae rhan bwysig ym mywyd llawer o gymunedau yng Nghymru, a byddwn yn parhau i roi’r gefnogaeth honno iddynt.

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd (David Melding) i’r Gadair am 3.10 p.m.
The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Melding) took the Chair at 3.10 p.m.

Datganiad: Darparu’r Weledigaeth ar gyfer y Gwasanaeth Iechyd Gwladol—Gyda’n Gilydd dros Iechyd
Statement: Delivering the NHS Vision—Together for Health

The Minister for Health and Social Services (Lesley Griffiths): Members will recall that after the election we held a debate on the report of the Bevan Commission. The report noted good progress, pointed to some difficult challenges, and identified opportunities to grasp the initiative. At the end of that debate, the National Assembly voted to welcome the report, and today I am presenting the Government’s response.

Y Gweinidog Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Lesley Griffiths): Bydd yr Aelodau’n cofio ein bod wedi cynnal dadl ar adroddiad Comisiwn Bevan ar ôl yr etholiad. Nododd yr adroddiad gynnydd da, tynnodd sylw at rai heriau anodd a nododd gyfleoedd i achub y blaen. Ar ddiwedd y ddadl honno, pleidleisiodd y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol i groesawu’r adroddiad, a heddiw yr wyf yn cyflwyno ymateb y Llywodraeth.

Good health is vital to the creation of a prosperous, successful and sustainable Wales.  ‘Together for Health’—the title is carefully chosen—sets out how we propose to improve health for everyone in Wales. I strongly believe that there is an urgent need for change within the NHS. The Bevan Commission’s report made this abundantly clear. The reality is that the NHS faces huge challenges. Rising expectations, driven by medical advances, and changing patterns of disease and demography, mean the status quo is not an option. These new pressures, along with the financial challenges that the NHS faces, mean we have to act now. I have made it clear that it is inevitable that the pattern of services will need to change, but I do not want the debate about the future of health and our NHS to be focused on service change. That is why the document that I am launching today is about a bigger change, and a deeper shift in thinking and behaviour.

Mae iechyd da yn hanfodol i greu Cymru lewyrchus, lwyddiannus a chynaliadwy.  Mae ‘Gyda’n Gilydd dros Iechyd’—dewiswyd y teitl yn ofalus—yn gosod allan sut y bwriadwn wella iechyd i bawb yng Nghymru.  Credaf yn gryf fod yna angen brys am newid o fewn y GIG. Gwnaeth adroddiad Comisiwn Bevan hyn yn gwbl glir. Y gwir amdani yw bod y GIG yn wynebu heriau enfawr. Mae disgwyliadau yn cynyddu, sydd wedi cael ei yrru gan ddatblygiadau meddygol, a golyga newid mewn patrymau clefyd a demograffeg nad yw’r sefyllfa bresennol yn opsiwn. Golyga’r pwysau newydd hyn, ynghyd â’r heriau ariannol sy’n wynebu’r GIG, fod yn rhaid i ni weithredu yn awr. Yr wyf wedi ei gwneud yn glir ei bod yn anochel y bydd yn rhaid i batrwm gwasanaethau newid, ond nid wyf am i’r drafodaeth am ddyfodol iechyd a’n GIG ganolbwyntio ar newid gwasanaethau. Dyna pam mae’r ddogfen yr wyf yn ei lansio heddiw yn ymwneud â newid mwy, a symudiad dyfnach mewn meddwl ac ymddygiad.

The paper identifies a number of ways in which we need to move forward, which can be explained under three themes. First, we must do much more to foster and protect positive health. Secondly, we must ensure that the NHS is as good as it can be. Thirdly, we must create both a new attitude and momentum in Wales, including a new relationship with the public. In previous debates we have discussed the positive changes in health and the areas where we have, perhaps, made less progress. In many ways we are healthier than previous generations were, but not everyone has the good fortune to have good health. Some groups are falling further behind and some problems, such as smoking and obesity, are proving tougher to tackle than we would like. This Government will drive harder to address these problems, and, in particular, to reduce the inequalities that should not exist in a modern civilised country.

Mae’r papur yn nodi nifer o ffyrdd y mae angen inni symud ymlaen, a ellir ei esbonio dan dair thema. Yn gyntaf, mae’n rhaid i ni wneud llawer mwy i feithrin a gwarchod iechyd cadarnhaol. Yn ail, mae’n rhaid i ni sicrhau bod y GIG cystal ag y gall fod. Yn drydydd, mae’n rhaid i ni greu agwedd a momentwm newydd yng Nghymru, gan gynnwys perthynas newydd gyda’r cyhoedd. Mewn dadleuon blaenorol yr ydym wedi trafod y newidiadau cadarnhaol mewn iechyd a’r meysydd lle, efallai, y gwnaethom llai o gynnydd. Mewn sawl ffordd, yr ydym yn iachach nag oedd cenedlaethau blaenorol, ond nid oes gan bawb y ffortiwn dda i gael iechyd da. Mae rhai grwpiau yn gostwng ymhellach yn ôl ac mae rhai problemau, fel ysmygu a gordewdra, yn profi’n llymach i fynd i’r afael â hwy nag y byddem yn hoffi. Bydd y Llywodraeth yn bwrw ati yn fwy caled i fynd i’r afael â’r problemau hyn, ac, yn arbennig, lleihau’r anghydraddoldebau na ddylent fodoli mewn gwlad wâr fodern.

We are proud of our NHS, and it has made important progress in recent years. We have united health improvement, primary care and specialist services in single streamlined structures within the new health boards. We have created a strong public health engine for Wales. Creating those new bodies was phase 1 of a process of improvement. Phase 2 will see a shift to an NHS based on health outcomes, careful financial management and caring about people. It is now far easier for the NHS to work with other bodies and to contribute to broader programmes, such as our early years and poverty agendas. Now is the time to establish services that will be both resilient and flexible and see us safely through the next decade and beyond.

Yr ydym yn falch o’n GIG, ac mae wedi gwneud cynnydd pwysig yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf. Yr ydym wedi uno gwella iechyd, gofal sylfaenol a gwasanaethau arbenigol mewn strwythurau symlach sengl o fewn y byrddau iechyd newydd. Yr ydym wedi creu injan iechyd cyhoeddus gref ar gyfer Cymru. Cam 1 o broses o welliant oedd creu’r cyrff newydd hynny. Bydd Cam 2 yn gweld newid i GIG yn seiliedig ar ganlyniadau iechyd, rheolaeth ariannol ofalus a gwerthfawrogi pobl. Mae bellach yn llawer haws i’r GIG i weithio gyda chyrff eraill a chyfrannu at raglenni ehangach, fel ein hagendâu blynyddoedd cynnar a thlodi. Dyma’r amser i sefydlu gwasanaethau a fydd yn wydn ac yn hyblyg yn ogystal ag yn ein hebrwng yn ddiogel drwy’r degawd nesaf a thu hwnt.

‘Together for Health’ builds on a powerful clinical case for change to our services, and a set of positive arguments, which say services can and must be better than they are. They include the enduring nature of health inequalities, continuing inconsistencies in service quality, recommendations of Royal colleges, outcomes from national audit reports, emerging evidence on how best to organise complex care, and changes in clinical practice and technology. Preserving services as they are, because we do not have the courage to make the changes, will not address these issues. We have no choice. We must transform services if we are to have a state of the art, clinically appropriate response to rising and changing demand. If we do not, we will never attract world-class staff and tackle deep seated patterns of inequality. We must strengthen community based care, stop unplanned hospitalisation, and create a network of centres of excellence.

Mae ‘Gyda’n Gilydd dros Iechyd’ yn adeiladu ar achos clinigol pwerus o blaid newid yn ein gwasanaethau, a set o ddadleuon cadarnhaol sy’n dweud y gall gwasanaethau fod yn well nag y maent ac mae’n rhaid iddynt fod. Maent yn cynnwys natur barhaol anghydraddoldebau iechyd, anghysondebau parhaus yn ansawdd y gwasanaeth, argymhellion colegau brenhinol, canlyniadau adroddiadau archwilio cenedlaethol, tystiolaeth sy’n dod i’r amlwg ar y ffordd orau i drefnu gofal cymhleth, a newidiadau mewn arferion clinigol a thechnoleg. Ni fydd cadw gwasanaethau fel y maent, oherwydd nad ydym yn ddigon dewr i wneud y newidiadau, yn mynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn. Nid oes gennym unrhyw ddewis. Mae’n rhaid i ni drawsnewid gwasanaethau os ydym i gael yr ymateb diweddaraf, sy’n briodol yn glinigol i alw sy’n cynyddu ac yn newid. Os na wnawn, ni fyddwn byth yn denu staff o’r radd flaenaf a mynd i’r afael â phatrymau dwfn o anghydraddoldeb. Mae’n rhaid i ni gryfhau gofal yn y gymuned, rhoi’r gorau i gyfnodau heb eu cynllunio yn yr ysbyty, a chreu rhwydwaith o ganolfannau rhagoriaeth.

A particular responsibility lies with us in this Chamber. The Bevan Commission’s report stated:

Mae cyfrifoldeb arbennig gennym ni yn y Siambr hon. Dywedodd adroddiad Comisiwn Bevan:

‘If there is a demonstrable need for the NHS to change services, opposition from politicians may meet the short-term desires of local people while threatening sustainability and improvement of services over the longer term.’

Os oes angen amlwg i’r GIG newid gwasanaethau, efallai bydd gwrthwynebiad gan wleidyddion yn bodloni dyheadau tymor byr pobl leol wrth fygwth cynaliadwyedd a gwella gwasanaethau dros y tymor hwy.

We cannot be neutral. We need to help the NHS do better. That said, we need to hold the NHS to account. The acid test of services is what they achieve for patients and what people think of them. In making the NHS as good as it can be, I am maintaining the focus on quality, with a new emphasis on outcomes.

Ni allwn fod yn niwtral. Mae angen i ni helpu’r GIG i wneud yn well. Wedi dweud hynny, mae angen i ni ddal y GIG i gyfrif. Prawf terfynol gwasanaethau yw’r hyn maent yn ei gyflawni ar gyfer cleifion a beth mae pobl yn ei feddwl ohonynt. Wrth wneud y GIG cystal ag y gall fod, yr wyf yn cynnal y ffocws ar ansawdd, gyda phwyslais newydd ar ganlyniadau.

3.15 p.m.

The 1000 Lives Plus approach has played a significant part over the past three years in driving a culture of continuous quality improvement, and we will continue to build on that. The work has seen unprecedented clinical engagement and leadership at all levels. Using outcomes will be a powerful agent in making the right changes happen. I also want the NHS to look at who gets what outcomes, reflecting our commitment to fairness, equality and social justice. This will be accompanied by a strong focus on improving patient experience and ensuring that every single individual is treated with dignity and respect. A national approach to measuring patient experience will be in place in the next year.

Mae’r dull 1000 o Fywydau a Mwy wedi chwarae rhan arwyddocaol dros y tair blynedd diwethaf yn hyrwyddo diwylliant o wella ansawdd yn barhaol, a byddwn yn parhau i adeiladu ar hynny. Mae’r gwaith wedi gweld ymgysylltu clinigol ac arweinyddiaeth ddigynsail ar bob lefel. Byddai defnyddio canlyniadau yn elfen bwerus o wneud i’r newidiadau cywir ddigwydd. Yr wyf hefyd eisiau i’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol edrych i weld pwy sy’n cael pa ganlyniadau, gan adlewyrchu ein hymrwymiad i degwch, cydraddoldeb a chyfiawnder cymdeithasol. Ategir hyn gan ffocws cryf ar wella profiad cleifion a sicrhau bod pob unigolyn yn cael ei drin ag urddas a pharch. Bydd dull cenedlaethol o fesur profiad cleifion mewn lle yn ystod y flwyddyn nesaf.

The changes that we propose will force the NHS to use its resources well. With money being tight as a result of the overall Government funding position, every penny must be used well. Even if money was plentiful, however, there are strong reasons for reviewing current approaches. We have made a clear commitment to improving the health of people in Wales, to creating modern healthcare and to taking tough action on health inequalities over the next five years. We set out our path ahead in our manifesto, and reaffirmed our intentions in the programme for government.

Bydd y newidiadau a gynigiwn yn gorfodi’r gwasanaeth iechyd i wneud defnydd da o’i adnoddau. Gydag arian yn dynn oherwydd sefyllfa ariannu’r Llywodraeth yn gyffredinol, rhaid defnyddio pob ceiniog yn dda. Hyd yn oed petai digon o arian, fodd bynnag, mae yna resymau cryf dros adolygu’r dulliau gweithredu presennol. Yr ydym wedi gwneud ymrwymiad clir i wella iechyd pobl yng Nghymru, i greu gofal iechyd modern ac i gymryd camau llym ar anghydraddoldebau iechyd dros y pum mlynedd nesaf. Nodwyd ein llwybr ymlaen yn ein maniffesto, ac ailddatganwyd ein bwriadau yn y rhaglen lywodraethu.

However, it is a shared agenda; we cannot do it alone. Delivery for the boards and trusts that make up the NHS in Wales means seeing through the improvements in services set out in the programme for government, but also means ensuring daily excellence in all that the NHS does and continuous adaptation as needs and circumstances change. The NHS can provide services, expertise and leadership. The next five years will test the capability and resolve of the NHS and its partners—above all, local government and the third sector—to prove that the Welsh model can deliver an ambitious yet realistic programme.

Fodd bynnag, agenda ar y cyd ydyw; ni allwn ei wneud ar ein pennau ein hunain. Mae darparu ar gyfer y byrddau a’r ymddiriedolaethau yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru yn golygu gwireddu’r gwelliannau mewn gwasanaethau a nodir yn y rhaglen lywodraethu, ond y mae hefyd yn golygu sicrhau rhagoriaeth bob dydd ym mhob peth a wnaiff y gwasanaeth iechyd, yn ogystal ag addasu parhaol wrth i anghenion ac amgylchiadau newid. Gall y gwasanaeth iechyd ddarparu gwasanaethau, arbenigedd ac arweinyddiaeth. Bydd y pum mlynedd nesaf yn brawf o allu a chryfder y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol a’i bartneriaid—llywodraeth leol a’r trydydd sector, yn anad dim—i brofi y gall model Cymru ddarparu rhaglen uchelgeisiol ond realistig.

However, the NHS cannot do it alone. The people of Wales care about their health and the health of their families, and if we were to ignore their aspirations and potential contribution, we would risk neglecting a huge resource. We need a partnership with the people of Wales—a compact—where the Government, the NHS and its partners work with the public and individuals to provide services that they value and that stand the test of comparison with any in the world. We must all use the resources, energy, skills and imagination of everyone to achieve this. ‘Together for Health’ sets out what we can do together over the next five years and how.

Fodd bynnag, ni all y gwasanaeth iechyd ei wneud ar ei ben ei hun. Mae eu hiechyd eu hunain ac iechyd eu teuluoedd yn bwysig i bobl Cymru, a phetaem yn anwybyddu eu dyheadau a’u cyfraniad posibl, byddem mewn perygl o esgeuluso un o’n hadnoddau mawr. Mae arnom angen bartneriaeth gyda phobl Cymru—compact—lle mae’r Llywodraeth, y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol a’i bartneriaid yn cydweithio â’r cyhoedd ac unigolion i ddarparu gwasanaethau y maent yn eu gwerthfawrogi ac sydd yn gwrthsefyll y prawf cymharu ag unrhyw un yn y byd. Rhaid inni gyd ddefnyddio adnoddau, ynni, sgiliau a dychymyg pawb i gyflawni hyn. Mae ‘Law yn Llaw at Iechyd’ yn nodi’r hyn y gallwn ei wneud gyda’n gilydd dros y pum mlynedd nesaf a sut.

‘Together for Health’ is our response to the Bevan commission report that the Assembly welcomed. The commission set some tough challenges. We have not ducked them: our stated aims, which we have also built into our programme for government, include measurable improvements in health, outcomes and patient experience. We are aiming at everyday service excellence, a much more transparent approach to performance reporting and a more open relationship with the people of Wales. I have decided to re-establish the Bevan commission and will be looking to it to offer further advice on how to accelerate improvement. I will also look to the commission, and to the Chamber, to review our progress.

‘Law yn Llaw at Iechyd’ yw ein hymateb i adroddiad y comisiwn Bevan, a groesawyd gan y Cynulliad. Gosodwyd rhai heriau anodd gan y comisiwn. Nid ydym wedi anwybyddu’r rheiny: mae ein nodau datganedig, yr ydym hefyd wedi’u cynnwys yn ein rhaglen lywodraethu, yn cynnwys gwelliannau mesuradwy mewn iechyd, canlyniadau a phrofiad cleifion. Rydym yn anelu at ragoriaeth mewn gwasanaeth bob dydd, dull llawer mwy tryloyw i adrodd ar berfformiad a pherthynas fwy agored gyda phobl Cymru. Yr wyf wedi penderfynu ail-sefydlu’r comisiwn Bevan ac yn edrych iddo gynnig cyngor pellach ar sut i sbarduno gwelliannau. Byddaf hefyd yn edrych i’r comisiwn, ac i’r Siambr, i adolygu ein cynnydd.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Minister, thank you for your statement, which is the first clear statement that we have had from you, as Minister for health, on the direction of travel of this Government and what it seeks to achieve with the health service since the elections. There are many examples that one could use to highlight progress in the health service, and the benchmarks that one might use. Sadly, this statement does not offer any indication as to how you will be measuring progress. It is much like your programme for government, in that it uses colourful language, but does not offer any meaningful or substantial way that the opposition parties, the people of Wales or clinicians can mark the direction of travel that you are taking as you seek to reorganise the health service, as I presume that you wish to do, when you talk about making money go that much further.

Andrew R.T. Davies: Weinidog, diolch ichi am eich datganiad, sef y datganiad clir cyntaf a gawsom gennych chi, fel y Gweinidog dros iechyd, ar gyfeiriad y Llywodraeth hon a’r hyn y mae’n ceisio ei gyflawni gyda’r gwasanaeth iechyd ers yr etholiadau. Mae yna sawl enghraifft y gellid ei ddefnyddio i dynnu sylw at gynnydd o fewn y gwasanaeth iechyd a’r meincnodau y gellid eu defnyddio. Yn anffodus, nid yw’r datganiad hwn yn rhoi unrhyw arwydd o sut y byddwch yn mesur cynnydd. Mae’n debyg iawn i’ch rhaglen lywodraethu chi: mae’n defnyddio iaith liwgar ond nid yw’n cynnig unrhyw ffordd ystyrlon neu sylweddol y gall y gwrthbleidiau, pobl Cymru neu glinigwyr nodi’r cyfeiriad yr ydych yn ei gymryd wrth ichi geisio ad-drefnu’r gwasanaeth iechyd, fel y tybiaf yr ydych yn dymuno ei wneud, pan fyddwch yn sôn am wneud i arian fynd gymaint â hynny ymhellach.

From an opposition perspective, we are apprehensive about politicians considering short-term interests and threatening long-term sustainability, which you talk about on the second page of your statement. When you look at the way that the previous Government handled the McKinsey report and the evidence contained in it on that Government’s direction of travel, you cannot help but be sceptical about the intentions of this Government and the way that it will handle a consultation process when it is looking at changing services and reorganising the health service. There are many aspects of the service where you could make quite significant efficiency savings. Paul Davies—not my colleague, but the finance director and representative of the NHS—touched on this and talked about £1 billion-worth of savings that could be made and the better prioritisation of resources. There are options such as the reorganisation of elective surgery and diagnostic services within the Welsh NHS to consider, and there is also the waste of drugs and the £50 million-worth of possible savings that have been identified in that area. Therefore, there are examples on which we, as an opposition, would seek to work with you. However, we hear those on the Government benches talking about various manifesto commitments—GP opening hours, for example, or health checks for the over-50s—and when they are asked time and again about the costings, they reply that they are cost neutral. However, in fact, every health professional will indicate that there is a cost attached. Where will the funding to cover those costs come from and where will those efficiency savings be made?

O safbwynt gwrthbleidiol, yr ydym yn bryderus ynghylch gwleidyddion yn ystyried buddiannau tymor byr ac yn bygwth cynaliadwyedd tymor hir, y soniwch amdano ar ail dudalen eich datganiad. Pan edrychwch ar y ffordd yr ymdriniodd y Llywodraeth flaenorol ag adroddiad McKinsey a’r dystiolaeth sydd ynddo ar gyfeiriad y Llywodraeth honno, ni allwch beidio â bod yn amheus ynghylch bwriadau’r Llywodraeth hon a’r ffordd y bydd yn ymdrin â phroses ymgynghori pan fo’n edrych ar newid gwasanaethau ac ad-drefnu’r gwasanaeth iechyd. Ceir nifer o agweddau ar y gwasanaeth lle y gallech wneud arbedion effeithlonrwydd eithaf arwyddocaol. Cyffyrddodd Paul Davies—nid fy nghyd-Aelod, ond cyfarwyddwr cyllid a chynrychiolydd y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol—â hyn a bu’n sôn am werth £1 biliwn o arbedion y gellid eu gwneud a’r blaenoriaethu gwell o adnoddau. Ceir opsiynau megis ad-drefnu llawdriniaeth ddewisol a gwasanaethau diagnostig o fewn gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol Cymru i’w hystyried, a hefyd ceir y gwastraff o gyffuriau a’r gwerth £50 miliwn o arbedion posibl a nodwyd yn y maes hwnnw. Felly, mae yna enghreifftiau lle y byddem, fel gwrthblaid, yn ceisio cydweithio â chi. Fodd bynnag, clywn y rheiny ar feinciau’r Llywodraeth yn sôn am amryw ymrwymiadau maniffesto—oriau agor meddygon teulu, er enghraifft, neu archwiliadau iechyd ar gyfer pobl dros 50 oed—a phan ofynnir iddynt dro ar ôl tro am y costau, maent yn ymateb eu bod yn niwtral o ran cost. Fodd bynnag, mewn gwirionedd, bydd bob gweithiwr iechyd proffesiynol yn nodi bod cost ynghlwm. O ble y daw’r cyllid i dalu am y costau hynny, ac ymhle y gwneir yr arbedion effeithlonrwydd hynny?

When you look at the Wales Audit Office report on the delivery of health services in Wales, it makes for very grim reading. It is with those caveats that I would like to hear from you, Minister, whether you are prepared to make a commitment to the present district general hospital network in Wales, and to state that, by the next elections in 2016, we will have the same footprint of district general hospitals that we currently have. When you look at cross-border services, for large parts of Wales, the relationship with the health service in England is of critical importance when devising service provision. This statement does not touch at all on cross-border healthcare services, which, for many people in north and mid Wales, is their main conduit—especially for specialist intervention.

Pan edrychwch ar adroddiad Swyddfa Archwilio Cymru ar ddarparu gwasanaethau iechyd yng Nghymru, mae’n ddeunydd enbyd iawn i’w ddarllen. Ar yr eithriadau hynny yr hoffwn glywed gennych, Weinidog: p’un ai a ydych yn barod i wneud ymrwymiad i’r rhwydwaith presennol o ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth yng Nghymru, ac i ddatgan y bydd gennym, erbyn yr etholiadau nesaf yn 2016, yr un ôl troed o ran ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth ag sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd. Pan edrychwch ar wasanaethau trawsffiniol, ar gyfer rhannau helaeth o Gymru, mae’r berthynas gyda’r gwasanaeth iechyd yn Lloegr yn hollbwysig wrth lunio darpariaeth gwasanaeth. Nid yw’r datganiad hwn yn cyffwrdd o gwbl â gwasanaethau gofal iechyd trawsffiniol, sydd, i lawer o bobl yng ngogledd a chanolbarth Cymru, yn brif gyfrwng—yn enwedig ar gyfer ymyrraeth arbenigol.

Ensuring that we can attract enough doctors to fill the rotas—the First Minister touched on this during the questions to him today—so that the health boards can provide the services that are needed in a twenty-first century health service has been a longstanding issue in Wales, and one on which I called for a statement some two weeks ago. Again, in responding to the vision for the NHS, it would be good to hear how you will be working with the health boards to make sure that those rotas can be filled.

Mae sicrhau ein bod yn gallu denu digon o feddygon i lenwi’r rotâu—soniodd y Prif Weinidog am hyn yn ystod y cwestiynau iddo heddiw—fel y gall y byrddau iechyd ddarparu’r gwasanaethau y mae eu hangen mewn gwasanaeth iechyd yn yr unfed ganrif ar hugain, wedi bod yn fater o bwys ers cryn amser yng Nghymru, ac un y gelwais am ddatganiad arno bythefnos yn ôl. Unwaith eto, mewn ymateb i’r weledigaeth ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol, byddai’n dda clywed sut y byddwch yn cydweithio â’r byrddau iechyd i sicrhau y gellir llenwi’r rotâu hynny.

You talk about the partnership between local authorities and the voluntary sector. No-one would agree more with you than me about the importance of developing that partnership, especially on the issue of bed blocking. How will you take forward that issue of a constructive partnership that will put the solutions in place for the transition of care from the health system into social care? Above all, voluntary sector organisations should be looked on as equal partners when developing working arrangements, so that they can have confidence when they are assisting health boards that they are seen as partners and not some sort of soft soap that allows the health boards to use voluntary donations to meet their statutory commitments. With those few thoughts, I look forward to your answers on the statement that you have provided this afternoon.

Rydych yn sôn am y bartneriaeth rhwng awdurdodau lleol a’r sector gwirfoddol. Ni fyddai unrhyw un yn cytuno mwy â chi na mi am bwysigrwydd datblygu’r bartneriaeth honno, yn enwedig ar y mater o flocio gwelyau. Sut y gwnewch chi weithredu’r mater hwnnw o bartneriaeth adeiladol a fydd yn rhoi’r atebion ar waith ar gyfer trosglwyddo gofal o’r system iechyd i ofal cymdeithasol? Yn anad dim, dylid edrych ar sefydliadau yn y sector gwirfoddol fel partneriaid cyfartal wrth ddatblygu trefniadau gweithio, fel y gallant fod yn hyderus pan fyddant yn cynorthwyo byrddau iechyd y’u gwelir fel partneriaid ac nid yn rhyw fath o seboni sy’n caniatáu byrddau iechyd i ddefnyddio rhoddion gwirfoddol i fodloni eu hymrwymiadau statudol. Gyda’r ychydig sylwadau hynny, edrychaf ymlaen at eich atebion ar y datganiad a ddarparwyd gennych y prynhawn yma.

Lesley Griffiths: I think that the leader of the opposition started off unfairly and disingenuously, if you do not mind my saying so, by suggesting that this is my first major strategy since coming to office. I launched the maternity services strategy in September, when I made a statement to the Chamber. The Bevan commission report only came out in June; we debated it and, as I said, this is my response to it.

Lesley Griffiths: Credaf fod arweinydd yr wrthblaid wedi dechrau mewn ffordd annheg a ffuantus, os caf ddweud, wrth awgrymu mai dyma fy strategaeth fawr gyntaf ers imi gychwyn ar y swydd hon. Lansiais y strategaeth gwasanaethau mamolaeth ym mis Medi, pan wneuthum ddatganiad i’r Siambr. Dim ond ym Mehefin y cyhoeddwyd adroddiad y comisiwn Bevan; buom yn ei drafod ac, fel y dywedais, dyma fy ymateb iddo.

You talk about the consultation process that is coming up. We do not know what services may change. I have not seen the plans, and I assume that you have not either. I am absolutely committed to district general hospitals. No district general hospitals will close. Some services may change, but we will be looking to protect services and to have those services as close to home as possible for many people, although some services will have to be in specialist centres, and people may have to travel a bit further to those.

Rydych yn sôn am y broses ymgynghori sydd i ddod. Nid ydym yn gwybod pa wasanaethau a all newid. Nid wyf wedi gweld y cynlluniau, ac rwy’n cymryd nad ydych chithau ychwaith. Yr wyf yn gwbl ymrwymedig i ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth. Ni fydd unrhyw ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth yn cau. Efallai y bydd rhai gwasanaethau yn newid, ond byddwn yn edrych i ddiogelu gwasanaethau ac i gael y gwasanaethau hynny cyn agosed i’r cartref ag y bo modd i lawer o bobl, er y bydd yn rhaid i rai gwasanaethau fod mewn canolfannau arbenigol, ac efallai y bydd yn rhaid i bobl deithio ychydig ymhellach i’r rheiny.

You talk about the recruitment of medical staff. You heard the First Minister say earlier that we will be having a recruitment drive to show that Wales is an attractive place to work. We know that doctors prefer working in Wales to England, and who can blame them with what your colleagues are doing over the border? You talk about waste in the NHS: there has been a lot of money saved and a lot of waste cut out. I think that the NHS in Wales has led the way on invest to save and it has been good to see that money go back in to front-line services.

Rydych yn sôn am recriwtio staff meddygol. Clywsoch y Prif Weinidog yn dweud yn gynharach y byddwn yn cael ymgyrch recriwtio i ddangos bod Cymru yn lle deniadol i weithio ynddo. Gwyddom ei fod yn well gan feddygon weithio yng Nghymru nag yn Lloegr, a phwy all eu beio gyda’r hyn y mae eich cydweithwyr yn ei wneud dros y ffin? Rydych yn sôn am wastraff yn y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol: arbedwyd llawer o arian a thorrwyd allan llawer o wastraff. Credaf fod y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yng Nghymru wedi arwain y ffordd ar fuddsoddi i arbed ac y mae wedi bod yn dda i weld yr arian hwnnw’n mynd yn ôl i wasanaethau rheng flaen.

David Rees: Thank you for your statement, Minister, which outlines the direction for the health service in the coming years. A clear theme running through the ‘Together for Health’ document, as you have mentioned today, is that we will continue to have the high-quality NHS services we want in Wales, but the location in which they will be provided may change. As you said, some people may have to travel further. Although this will mean more services in local communities, do you agree, therefore, that some vulnerable people, especially those in Valleys areas, such as in my area of Afan valley, will have to travel further to receive treatment in specialist centres? Have you had discussions with health boards, or even with the Minister for transport, to discuss how we can look at ways in which we can support the transportation of patients to those areas, rather than having to pay taxi fares, which can be extortionate?

David Rees: Diolch ichi am eich datganiad, Weinidog, sy’n amlinellu’r cyfeiriad ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd yn y blynyddoedd i ddod. Thema amlwg sy’n rhedeg drwy’r ddogfen ‘Law yn Llaw at Iechyd’, fel y crybwyllwyd gennych heddiw, yw y byddwn yn parhau i gael y gwasanaethau GIG ansawdd uchel y dymunwn eu cael yng Nghymru, ond gall y lleoliad lle cânt eu darparu newid. Fel y dywedasoch, efallai bydd yn rhaid i rai pobl teithio ymhellach. Er y bydd hyn yn golygu mwy o wasanaethau mewn cymunedau lleol, a ydych yn cytuno, felly, y bydd yn rhaid i rai pobl sydd yn agored i niwed, yn enwedig y rheiny mewn ardaloedd yn y Cymoedd, fel yn fy ardal i o gwm Afan, deithio ymhellach i gael triniaeth mewn canolfannau arbenigol? A ydych wedi cael trafodaethau gyda byrddau iechyd, neu hyd yn oed gyda’r Gweinidog dros drafnidiaeth, i drafod sut y gallwn edrych ar ffyrdd y gallwn gefnogi cludo cleifion i’r ardaloedd hynny, yn hytrach na gorfod talu costau tacsi, a all fod yn afresymol?

Lesley Griffiths: The Member for Aberavon is quite correct. We must ensure that local health boards are talking to each other about that in the service plans that come through. I had a discussion with Carl Sargeant, the Minister for transport, only this morning about this issue to say that there must be that assurance that public transport will be there, if patients have to travel a little further. We need to ensure that we get the right balance, where people only need to travel long distances where absolutely necessary, with all other services being closer to home. This is being addressed through the implementation of the rural health plan and ‘Setting the Direction’, which has brought primary and secondary care services much closer together and integrated them further. Our aim is not to maintain the quality of services that we have, but to improve them, and that is what we will be seeing.

Lesley Griffiths: Mae’r Aelod dros Aberafan yn iawn. Mae’n rhaid inni sicrhau bod byrddau iechyd lleol yn trafod hynny ymysg ei gilydd yn y cynlluniau gwasanaeth a fydd yn ymddangos. Cefais drafodaeth â Carl Sargeant, y Gweinidog dros drafnidiaeth, dim ond y bore yma am y mater hwn i ddweud bod yn rhaid cael y sicrwydd hwnnw y bydd trafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, os oes rhaid i gleifion deithio ychydig ymhellach. Mae angen inni sicrhau y cawn y cydbwysedd cywir, lle bydd pobl yn teithio pellteroedd hir pan fo hynny’n hollol angenrheidiol yn unig, gyda’r holl wasanaethau eraill yn agosach at y cartref. Rhoddir sylw i hyn drwy weithredu’r cynllun iechyd gwledig a ‘Gosod y Cyfeiriad’, sydd wedi dod â gwasanaethau gofal sylfaenol ac eilaidd yn llawer agosach at ei gilydd ac yn eu hintegreiddio ymhellach. Nid ein nod yw i gynnal ansawdd y gwasanaethau sydd gennym, ond i wella arnynt, a dyna beth y byddwn yn ei weld.

Elin Jones: Minister, thank you for your statement and for the vision document received at lunch time. In both documents, you have outlined the general direction for the NHS and there are some commendable statements and aspirations in your vision. However, as I am sure that you know, you will be judged on the detailed services delivered to patients in every community in Wales over the next five years. Unsurprisingly, there is little detail in the vision today.

Elin Jones: Weinidog, diolch ichi am eich datganiad ac am y ddogfen weledigaeth a dderbyniwyd amser cinio. Yn y ddwy ddogfen, yr ydych wedi amlinellu’r cyfeiriad cyffredinol ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol ac y mae yna rai datganiadau a dyheadau clodwiw yn eich gweledigaeth. Fodd bynnag, fel y gwyddoch, mae’n siŵr, cewch eich barnu yn ôl y gwasanaethau manwl a gyflenwir i gleifion ym mhob cymuned yng Nghymru dros y pum mlynedd nesaf. Nid yw’n syndod nad oes llawer o fanylion yn y weledigaeth heddiw.

In your statement, you urge politicians not be neutral on the NHS. I can assure you that Plaid Cymru will not be neutral: where we see that the changes will lead to better services to patients, we will be supportive; where we believe that change will diminish access to and the quality of NHS services, we will object. However, we will not be neutral.

Yn eich datganiad, rydych yn annog gwleidyddion i beidio â bod yn niwtral ynghylch y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Gallaf eich sicrhau na fydd Plaid Cymru yn niwtral: lle y gwelwn y bydd y newidiadau yn arwain at wasanaethau gwell i gleifion, byddwn yn gefnogol; lle y credwn y bydd newid yn lleihau mynediad at wasanaethau’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol a’u hansawdd, byddwn yn gwrthwynebu. Fodd bynnag, ni fyddwn yn niwtral.

In a Plaid Cymru debate a few weeks ago, we outlined our view that a network of district general hospitals in Wales is a key asset to our NHS. Before the elections in May, Plaid Cymru warned that Labour had no commitment to district general hospitals, and we said that plans would be forthcoming to downgrade them. Your First Minister said that our claims were false, and I notice that he is not here to defend you this afternoon.

Mewn dadl gan Blaid Cymru ychydig wythnosau yn ôl, amlinellwyd ein barn bod rhwydwaith o ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth yng Nghymru yn ased allweddol i’n gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Cyn yr etholiadau ym mis Mai, rhybuddiodd Plaid Cymru nad oedd ymrwymiad gan y Blaid Lafur i ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth, a dywedasom y byddai cynlluniau ar y gweill i’w hisraddio. Dywedodd eich Prif Weinidog bod ein honiadau yn ffug, a sylwaf nad yw ef yma i’ch amddiffyn y prynhawn yma.

Today, you have made no mention of our district general hospitals in your statement, and they only get one mention in your vision document, in which you say that district general hospitals will have to change. There is no mention of district general hospitals in the Labour manifesto, there is no mention of them in the programme of government and there is no mention of them in today’s statement. I doubt whether anyone could now accuse Plaid Cymru of scaremongering on the future of district general hospitals in Wales. You say in your vision document that district general hospitals will change. I say that you have no political mandate for that change in the Assembly. I fear that your vision document and your statement today will give the green light to local health boards to downgrade and centralise services away from our district general hospitals, going back to the proposals first put forward in 2006 and stopped when Plaid Cymru came into Government with the Labour Party.

Heddiw, nid ydych wedi sôn o gwbl am ein hysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth yn eich datganiad, a dim ond unwaith y sonnir amdanynt yn eich dogfen weledigaeth, lle’r ydych yn dweud y bydd ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth yn gorfod newid. Nid oes unrhyw sôn am ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth yn y maniffesto Llafur, nid oes unrhyw sôn amdanynt yn y rhaglen lywodraethu ac nid oes unrhyw sôn amdanynt yn y datganiad heddiw. Yr wyf yn amau a allai unrhyw un gyhuddo Plaid Cymru o godi bwganod ar ddyfodol ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth yng Nghymru bellach. Rydych yn dweud yn eich dogfen weledigaeth y bydd ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth yn newid. Yr wyf i’n dweud nad oes gennych unrhyw fandad gwleidyddol ar gyfer y newid hwnnw yn y Cynulliad. Rwy’n ofni y bydd eich dogfen weledigaeth a’ch datganiad heddiw yn rhoi golau gwyrdd i fyrddau iechyd lleol i israddio a chanoli gwasanaethau i ffwrdd o’n hysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth, a dychwelyd i’r cynigion a gyflwynwyd yn gyntaf yn 2006 ac a ataliwyd pan ddaeth Plaid Cymru i Lywodraeth gyda’r Blaid Lafur.

I come to my question. For a district general hospital to be sustainable, it needs a minimum level of surgery and clinical services, and those services cannot be downgraded if we are to retain the sustainability of that district general hospital. As the Minister for Health and Social Services, what services do you expect to be provided by a district general hospital over the next five years?

Dof at fy nghwestiwn. Er mwyn i ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth fod yn gynaliadwy, mae arno angen isafswm o wasanaethau llawfeddygol a chlinigol, ac ni ellir israddio’r gwasanaethau hynny os ydym i gadw cynaliadwyedd yr ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth hwnnw. Fel y Gweinidog dros Iechyd a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol, pa wasanaethau ydych yn disgwyl eu darparu gan ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth dros y pum mlynedd nesaf?

Lesley Griffiths: I thank the Member for Ceredigion for that question. I am afraid that you are, again, irresponsibly talking about downgrading. I do not want to see any downgrading. We want to see improved services. To talk about downgrading is absolute nonsense; it just insults the intelligence of people. You were peddling this myth about the future of district general hospitals, as you just said, before the elections. You obviously have not learnt anything from your disastrous campaign because people do not believe those scaremongering tactics. District general hospitals will remain. No district general hospital will close. The service change plans will come forward—[Interruption.]

Lesley Griffiths: Diolch i’r Aelod dros Geredigion am y cwestiwn hwnnw. Mae arnaf ofn eich bod, unwaith eto, yn anghyfrifol yn sôn am israddio. Nid wyf am weld unrhyw israddio. Rydym am weld gwell gwasanaethau. Mae sôn am israddio yn nonsens llwyr; mae’n sarhau deallusrwydd pobl. Roeddech yn ofera’r chwedl am ddyfodol ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth, fel yr ydych newydd ei ddweud, cyn yr etholiadau. Mae’n amlwg nad ydych wedi dysgu unrhyw beth o’ch hymgyrch drychinebus oherwydd nid yw pobl yn credu’r tactegau codi bwganod hynny. Bydd ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth yn parhau. Ni fydd unrhyw ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth yn cau. Bydd y cynlluniau newid gwasanaethau yn dod gerbron—[Torri ar draws.]

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. The Minister is dealing with an important question and I hope that we all want to hear the answer.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. Mae’r Gweinidog yn ymdrin â chwestiwn pwysig a gobeithiaf ein bod oll am glywed yr ateb.

3.30 p.m.

Lesley Griffiths: We will see the service changes that come in; we have not seen them yet and neither have you, and we need to see them before we start scaremongering. We must ensure that all services are safe, sustainable, of a high quality and effective. We know that our services are stretched at the moment; we can go back to Wanless in 2003. We know that our services are stretched. When those plans come forward, we will have a look at them and take them forward, but no district general hospital will close, and that is my commitment.

Lesley Griffiths: Byddwn yn gweld y newidiadau gwasanaeth a ddaw; nid ydym ni, na chithau ychwaith, wedi’u gweld nhw eto, ac mae angen inni eu gweld cyn inni ddechrau codi bwganod. Rhaid inni sicrhau bod pob gwasanaeth yn ddiogel, yn gynaliadwy, o ansawdd uchel ac yn effeithiol. Rydym yn gwybod bod ein gwasanaethau o dan bwysau ar hyn o bryd; gallwn fynd yn ôl i adroddiad Wanless yn 2003. Rydym yn gwybod bod ein gwasanaethau o dan bwysau. Pan fydd y cynlluniau hynny yn dod ymlaen, bydd yn rhaid edrych arnynt a bwrw ymlaen â hwy, ond ni fydd un ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth yn cau, a dyna yw’r ymrwymiad a wneuthum.

Mick Antoniw: I very much welcome the thrust of your statement, particularly the commitment in respect of the Bevan Commission because that is what outlines the principles of how we move forward, which is very much what makes what we are doing different from the way in which NHS reform is being looked at in England. There are two areas that I am not completely happy with. I am a little disappointed that you chose some while ago not to set up a people’s forum to look at reforms. I would hope that you would reconsider that as an option. Secondly, it is very clear that there is a failure to recruit doctors and nurses, and it seems that we need an investigation and an explanation as to what is happening, followed by a serious reappraisal of our training and recruitment policies.

Mick Antoniw: Croesawaf yn fawr fyrdwn eich datganiad, yn enwedig yr ymrwymiad o ran Comisiwn Bevan, oherwydd dyna beth sy’n amlinellu egwyddorion y ffordd y symudwn ymlaen, ac mae hynny’n rhan fawr o’r hyn sy’n gwneud beth a wnawn yn wahanol i’r ffordd y mae diwygio’r GIG yn cael ei ystyried yn Lloegr. Mae yna ddau faes nad wyf yn gwbl fodlon yn eu cylch. Yr wyf ychydig yn siomedig y dewisoch chi beth amser yn ôl i beidio â sefydlu fforwm y bobl i edrych ar y diwygiadau. Byddwn yn gobeithio y buasech yn ailystyried hynny fel opsiwn. Yn ail, mae’n glir iawn bod methiant i recriwtio meddygon a nyrsys, ac mae’n ymddangos bod angen ymchwiliad ac eglurhad o ran beth sy’n digwydd, cyn ailwerthuso ein polisïau hyfforddi a recriwtio.

Looking at how the NHS reforms and privatisation in England are taking place, if you take the key English targets, the number of patients in accident and emergency waiting over four hours is up by 76 per cent and increasing. The number of patients in England waiting for more than six weeks for diagnostic tests is up by 364 per cent and increasing; and patients waiting over 18 weeks for hospital treatment is up by 24 per cent and increasing. The statistics go on and on and on. Are you satisfied that, with the reforms and the involvement of the Bevan Commission, we can perform better than that and that we will avoid the destruction and damage that is occurring to the NHS in England as a result of the UK Government’s privatisation programme?

O edrych ar sut mae diwygiadau yn y GIG a phreifateiddio yn Lloegr yn digwydd, os cymerwch y targedau allweddol yn Lloegr, mae nifer y cleifion a arhosodd dros bedair awr mewn adrannau damweiniau ac achosion brys wedi codi 76 y cant, ac mae’n parhau i godi. Mae nifer y cleifion yn Lloegr sydd wedi bod yn aros am fwy na chwe wythnos i gael profion diagnostig wedi codi 364 y cant, ac mae’n parhau i godi; ac mae nifer y cleifion a fu’n aros mwy na 18 wythnos ar gyfer triniaeth yn yr ysbyty wedi codi 24 y cant, ac mae’n parhau i godi. Mae gennym y naill ystadegyn ar ôl y llall. A ydych chi’n fodlon, gyda diwygiadau a chyfraniad Comisiwn Bevan, y gallwn ni gyflawni’n well na hynny ac y byddwn yn osgoi’r dinistr a’r difrod sy’n digwydd i’r GIG yn Lloegr o ganlyniad i raglen breifateiddio Llywodraeth y DU?

Lesley Griffiths: In relation to the people’s forum, the community health councils are the voice of the people and they will be engaging in consultation with the local health boards and the local population when the service change plans come forward. In relation to recruitment, you heard me and the First Minister say earlier that there will be a recruitment campaign to make people aware of Wales. We need to look at how we can take that forward, and I will be making an announcement about that in the very near future. In relation to the NHS reforms coming forward in England, you are right to say that its waiting times are growing and growing. Unlike the Tories, we are not dismantling the NHS in Wales, and Welsh patients are not subject to a tablet tax through prescriptions. Most importantly, and in line with what you were saying about Bevan, we will not privatise the NHS in Wales.

Lesley Griffiths: Mewn perthynas â fforwm y bobl, y cynghorau iechyd cymuned yw llais y bobl, a byddant yn ymgynghori â byrddau iechyd lleol a’r boblogaeth leol pan fydd y cynlluniau newid gwasanaeth yn dod gerbron. Mewn perthynas â recriwtio, fe glywsoch chi fi a’r Prif Weinidog yn dweud yn gynharach y bydd ymgyrch recriwtio yn cael ei chynnal i wneud pobl yn ymwybodol o Gymru. Mae angen inni edrych ar sut y gallwn ni gymryd hynny ymlaen, a byddaf yn gwneud cyhoeddiad am hynny yn y dyfodol agos iawn. Mewn perthynas â diwygiadau i’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yn Lloegr, yr ydych yn iawn i ddweud bod yr amseroedd aros yn cynyddu ac yn cynyddu. Yn wahanol i’r Torïaid, nid ydym yn datgymalu’r GIG yng Nghymru, ac nid yw cleifion Cymru yn ddarostyngedig i dreth dabledi drwy bresgripsiynau. Yn bwysicaf oll, ac yn unol â’r hyn yr oeddech yn ei ddweud am Bevan, ni fyddwn yn preifateiddio’r GIG yng Nghymru.

Kirsty Williams: In the build-up to this afternoon’s statement, we were led to believe that the publication of ‘Together for Health’ would be a new, dynamic document outlining the vision of the NHS for Wales, and I looked forward very much to receiving the copy because we all know the challenges we face at the moment. Reading the Minister’s introduction, I thought, ‘Hang on a minute, I have read this somewhere before; it seems so massively familiar to me.’ I could not quite put my finger on what was so familiar about the introduction. I then looked back at my records and at ‘Designed for Life’ from 2005. In Brian Gibbons’s introduction to ‘Designed for Life’, he described the NHS as being at its critical point in history and said that we were facing a critical challenge and a turning point in our history. The Government at the time stated that it was its desire to create

Kirsty Williams: Yn y cyfnod cyn datganiad y prynhawn yma, cawsom ein harwain i gredu y byddai cyhoeddi ‘Law yn Llaw at Iechyd’ yn golygu dogfen newydd, ddeinamig a fyddai’n amlinellu gweledigaeth y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol ar gyfer Cymru, ac edrychais ymlaen yn fawr iawn at dderbyn copi, oherwydd rydym ni i gyd yn ymwybodol o’r heriau a wynebwn ar hyn o bryd. Wrth ddarllen cyflwyniad y Gweinidog, meddyliais, ‘Arhoswch funud, yr wyf wedi darllen hyn yn rhywle o’r blaen; mae’n ymddangos yn hynod gyfarwydd i mi.’ Ni allwn roi fy mys yn union ar yr hyn a oedd mor gyfarwydd am y cyflwyniad. Yna, edrychais yn ôl ar fy nghofnodion ac ar ‘Cynllun Oes’ o 2005. Yng nghyflwyniad Brian Gibbons i ‘Cynllun Oes’, mae’n dweud bod y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol mewn cyfnod hollbwysig yn ei hanes, gan ddweud hefyd ein bod yn wynebu her hollbwysig a throbwynt yn ein hanes. Dywedodd y Llywodraeth ar y pryd ei bod yn dymuno creu

‘world class healthcare and social services...by 2015.’

gofal iechyd a gwasanaethau cymdeithasol gyda’r gorau yn y byd…erbyn 2015.

Today, the vision is to have, by 2016,

Heddiw, y weledigaeth yw cael, erbyn 2016,

‘services best suited to Wales but comparable with the best anywhere.’

gwasanaethau sy’n gweddu i Gymru ond sy’n cymharu gyda’r gorau ym mha le bynnag y bônt.

Today, the status quo is not an option, but change is not going to be easy. Back then it was,

Heddiw, nid yw’r status quo yn opsiwn, ond ni ddaw’r newid yn hawdd. Bryd hynny, roedd hi’n

‘time to accelerate change and to set our sights on reforming our hospital...services’

amser i gyflymu’r broses o newid ac i droi’n golygon at ddiwygio ein gwasanaethau ysbyty,

but that was always going to be challenging and not always very easy to achieve.

ond roedd hynny’n mynd i fod yn her fawr ac yn anodd i’w gyflawni.

The reason it was familiar then, and again today, is because we said it all in 2001 in ‘Improving Health in Wales: a Plan for the NHS with its Partners.’ It is a bit like groundhog day. We have had three strategic plans for the health service since this Assembly was created, and they all say pretty much the same. The disappointment and what is so gutting about the past 12 years is that things have not changed. The Minister is still talking about the same problems. She is still talking about exactly the same solutions that, in the end, got us to a health service that, as the Minister herself admits in this document today, still requires much to be done. What is also gutting about the lost time over the past 12 years is that we actually had some resources back then to try to make some of the difficult challenges work. Years and years have been wasted, and that is what is so very disappointing.

Yr oedd hynny’n gyfarwydd bryd hynny, ac eto heddiw, oherwydd fe fu inni ddweud hyn i gyd yn 2001 yn ‘Gwella Iechyd yng Nghymru: Cynllun i’r GIG ynghyd â’i Bartneriaid’. Mae hyn ychydig yn debyg i groundhog day. Yr ydym wedi cael tri chynllun strategol ar gyfer y gwasanaeth iechyd ers sefydlu’r Cynulliad hwn, ac maent oll fwy neu lai yn dweud yr un peth. Yr hyn sy’n siomedig ac yn drueni mawr am y 12 mlynedd diwethaf yw’r ffaith nad yw pethau wedi newid. Mae’r Gweinidog yn dal i siarad am yr un problemau. Mae’n dal i sôn am union yr un atebion, sef atebion a wnaeth, yn y pen draw, ein harwain at wasanaeth iechyd, fel y mae’r Gweinidog ei hun yn ei gyfaddef yn y ddogfen hon heddiw, y mae angen gwneud llawer iddo o hyd. Yr hyn sydd hefyd yn siomedig am yr amser a gollwyd dros y 12 mlynedd diwethaf yw’r ffaith bod gennym beth adnoddau bryd hynny a fyddai wedi caniatáu inni ymateb i rai o’r heriau anodd. Gwastraffwyd blynyddoedd a blynyddoedd, a dyna sydd yn hynod siomedig.

Turning to the first element of the report, namely positive health, the reality is that, today, as it was back then, someone living in Cyncoed will have a life expectancy 10 years greater than someone living in Butetown. That has not changed over the past 12 years. Marmot’s report, commissioned by Gordon Brown, and now being partially accepted by the current Westminster Government and incorporated into its Health and Social Care Bill, recognises that, if we are truly to tackle inequalities in health, it will be by tackling inequalities in society. So, turning to my first question, when will the Minister bring forward her public health Bill, promised in the Government’s legislative programme? We need that legislation, and we need that focus on public health if we are to achieve the improvement on inequality that the Minister refers to today.

Gan droi at elfen gyntaf yr adroddiad, sef iechyd cadarnhaol, y realiti heddiw, fel yr oedd bryd hynny, yw y bydd gan rywun sy’n byw yng Nghyncoed ddisgwyliad oes 10 mlynedd yn hwy na rhywun sy’n byw yn Butetown. Nid yw hynny wedi newid dros y 12 mlynedd diwethaf. Mae adroddiad Marmot, a gomisiynwyd gan Gordon Brown ac sydd bellach yn cael ei dderbyn yn rhannol gan y Llywodraeth bresennol yn San Steffan a’i ymgorffori yn ei Bil Iechyd a Gofal Cymdeithasol, yn cydnabod, os ydym yn wir am fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau iechyd, y gwneir hynny drwy fynd i’r afael ag anghydraddoldebau mewn cymdeithas. Felly, gan droi at fy nghwestiwn cyntaf, pryd fydd y Gweinidog yn cyflwyno ei Mesur iechyd y cyhoedd, a addawyd yn rhaglen ddeddfwriaethol y Llywodraeth? Mae angen y ddeddfwriaeth honno arnom, ac mae angen inni ganolbwyntio ar iechyd y cyhoedd os ydym am gyflawni’r gwelliant o ran anghydraddoldeb y mae’r Gweinidog yn cyfeirio ato heddiw.

The Minister goes on to say that she wants the NHS to be as good as it can be. There is no doubt that there are people working in the NHS today who are delivering excellent services. However, as Assembly Members, we are all too aware of some of the shocking examples of care that has gone wrong. I remember Angela Burns’s contribution at the close of our last Assembly. The 1000 Lives Campaign has made a difference, but the risk reviews of the local health boards show all too clearly how fragile and unsustainable some of our services are currently. So, I ask what ‘as good as it can be’ looks like to this Minister. What does success look like in five years’ time? What will success look like in terms of access to treatment? That is crucial for many of our constituents. What does it look like in terms of access to a GP or the length of waiting times for our secondary services?

Mae’r Gweinidog yn mynd ymlaen i ddweud ei bod am i’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol fod cystal ag y gall fod. Nid oes unrhyw amheuaeth bod yna bobl yn gweithio yn y GIG heddiw sy’n darparu gwasanaethau rhagorol. Fodd bynnag, fel Aelodau Cynulliad, yr ydym yn ymwybodol iawn o enghreifftiau dychrynllyd o ofal sydd wedi mynd o’i le. Cofiaf gyfraniad Angela Burns ar ddiwedd ein Cynulliad diwethaf. Mae Ymgyrch 1000 o Fywydau wedi gwneud gwahaniaeth, ond mae adolygiadau risg y byrddau iechyd lleol yn dangos yn hollol glir pa mor fregus ac anghynaladwy y mae rhai o’n gwasanaethau ar hyn o bryd. Felly, gofynnaf i’r Gweinidog beth yw’r diffiniad o ‘cystal ag y gall fod’. Beth fydd llwyddiant ymhen pum mlynedd? Beth fydd llwyddiant o ran mynediad at driniaeth? Mae hynny’n hollbwysig i lawer o’n hetholwyr. Beth yw llwyddiant o ran mynediad at feddyg teulu neu o ran hyd yr amseroedd aros ar gyfer ein gwasanaethau eilaidd?

The Minister did not answer Elin Jones’s question. She says that people are going to have to travel further to specialist services. However, one person’s specialist service is another person’s routine operation. Of course, you are not going to close any district general hospitals, but it comes down to the question of what constitutes a district general hospital. I would like to ask the Minister today whether she considers surgery to be a specialist service. Does she consider consultant-led maternity services to be a specialist service? Does she consider in-patient paediatric services to be a specialist service? Does she consider 24-hour consultant-led accident and emergency units as a specialist service?

Ni atebwyd cwestiwn Elin Jones gan y Gweinidog. Mae’n dweud y bydd yn rhaid i bobl deithio ymhellach er mwyn derbyn gwasanaethau arbenigol. Fodd bynnag, mae’r hyn sy’n wasanaeth arbenigol i un person yn llawdriniaeth arferol i berson arall. Wrth gwrs, nid ydych chi’n mynd i gau unrhyw ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth, ond y cwestiwn dan sylw yw beth yw ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth. Hoffwn ofyn i’r Gweinidog heddiw ba un a ydyw hi’n credu bod triniaethau llawfeddygol yn wasanaethau arbenigol. A ydyw hi’n credu bod gwasanaethau mamolaeth o dan arweiniad meddygon ymgynghorol yn wasanaethau arbenigol? A ydyw hi’n credu bod gwasanaethau pediatrig mewnol yn wasanaethau arbenigol? A ydyw hi’n credu bod unedau damweiniau ac achosion brys 24 awr o dan arweiniad meddygon ymgynghorol yn wasanaeth arbenigol?

Minister, you say in your statement that the changes are going to be difficult. Surely, if those changes are going to come, you need to front up about them. You need to be explicit about what a specialist service is and what a district general hospital looks like. Would it not be better if you did that sooner rather than later in this term of this Government?

Weinidog, yr ydych yn dweud yn eich datganiad bod y newidiadau yn mynd i fod yn anodd. Yn sicr, os yw’r newidiadau hynny yn mynd i ddod, mae angen i chi fod yn agored amdanynt. Mae angen i chi fod yn eglur ynghylch beth yw gwasanaeth arbenigol a sut beth yw ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth. Oni fyddai’n well pe baech yn gwneud hynny ynghynt yn hytrach nag yn hwyrach yn ystod tymor y Llywodraeth hon?

Turning to the recruitment of medics, the Minister quite rightly says that limitations on recruitment are seriously limiting our ability to deliver services in certain hospitals, particularly in the north-west and south-west of our country. In your recruitment regime for new medics to Wales, will you consider a scheme that incentivises junior doctors and consultants to work in some of our hospitals that are difficult to recruit people to? That is the way in which we can sustain services safely in some of those units.

A throi at recriwtio meddygon, mae’r Gweinidog yn dweud yn gwbl gywir fod cyfyngiadau ar recriwtio yn cyfyngu’n ddifrifol ar ein gallu i ddarparu gwasanaethau mewn rhai ysbytai, yn enwedig yn y gogledd-orllewin a’r de-orllewin. Yn eich cynllun recriwtio i ddenu meddygon newydd i Gymru, a wnewch chi ystyried cynllun a fyddai’n cymell meddygon iau a meddygon ymgynghorol i weithio mewn rhai o’n hysbytai y mae hi’n anodd recriwtio pobl iddynt? Dyna sut y gallwn ni sicrhau bod gwasanaethau yn cael eu cynnal yn ddiogel yn rhai o’r unedau hynny.

Your plan is very much predicated on the need to beef up community services and to have community services that can respond in a timely fashion to avoid admission to hospital. Minister, will you outline what will be different this time, because we have spent the past 12 years promising to beef up community services?

Mae eich cynllun wedi’i seilio i raddau helaeth iawn ar yr angen i atgyfnerthu gwasanaethau cymunedol ac i gael gwasanaethau cymunedol sy’n gallu ymateb yn amserol er mwyn osgoi derbyn pobl i’r ysbyty. Weinidog, a wnewch chi amlinellu beth fydd yn wahanol y tro hwn, oherwydd yr ydym wedi treulio’r 12 mlynedd diwethaf yn addo y byddwn yn atgyfnerthu gwasanaethau cymunedol?

The document also refers to excellence everywhere. As David Rees has already said, for some Valleys communities and for many rural communities, access is crucial. When you ask the LHBs to plan their services, will they take into consideration equity of access issues when planning where to place their services, so that all communities have an opportunity to access those services? Will they take into consideration the needs of Valleys communities and rural communities that are a long way from population centres?

Mae’r ddogfen hefyd yn cyfeirio at ragoriaeth ym mhobman. Fel y mae David Rees eisoes wedi ei ddweud, ar gyfer rhai o gymunedau’r Cymoedd ac ar gyfer llawer o gymunedau gwledig, mae mynediad yn hollbwysig. Pan fyddwch yn gofyn i’r byrddau iechyd lleol gynllunio eu gwasanaethau, a fyddant, wrth gynllunio ymhle i osod eu gwasanaethau, yn ystyried tegwch y sefyllfa o ran mynediad, er mwyn i bob cymuned gael mynediad at y gwasanaethau hynny? A fyddant hefyd yn ystyried anghenion cymunedau yn y Cymoedd ac mewn ardaloedd gwledig sy’n bell o ganolfannau poblogaeth?

Lesley Griffiths: I thank the Member for Brecon and Radnorshire for all of those questions. Starting with recruitment, you ask about incentives for specific hospitals. Incentives can be very difficult to implement, but we are going to look at a recruitment campaign over the next few days and weeks. The issue has been raised with me, particularly by the BMA. As I said, incentives are very difficult to implement, but I will pledge to take a look at that possibility.

Lesley Griffiths: Diolch i’r Aelod dros Frycheiniog a Sir Faesyfed am y cwestiynau hynny i gyd. Gan ddechrau gyda recriwtio, fe wnaethoch chi ofyn am gymhellion ar gyfer ysbytai penodol. Mae’n gallu bod yn anodd iawn i roi cymhellion ar waith, ond byddwn yn edrych ar ymgyrch recriwtio dros y dyddiau a’r wythnosau nesaf. Codwyd y mater hwn gyda mi, yn arbennig gan Gymdeithas Feddygol Prydain. Fel y dywedais, mae cymhellion yn anodd iawn i’w rhoi ar waith, ond rwy’n rhoi addewid y byddaf yn edrych ar y posibilrwydd hwnnw.

You asked about district general hospitals and what they are. They are what their name says they are: they are general hospitals. You have just said yourself that many of our services are fragile. They are fragile because they are stretched and because we cannot recruit doctors. One of the reasons we cannot recruit doctors to all services is that if you do not have the critical mass that allows doctors to have the professional development they are looking for, they will not come. That is a story that I am hearing. So, when I refer to specialist centres, I suppose that what I am talking about is a specialist centre for somebody who has a heart attack, because we know that somebody who has angioplasty within a certain time has a much better chance of recovering. That is what we are looking at; we are looking at how people can get better outcomes.

Fe wnaethoch chi ofyn am ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth a beth ydynt. Mae eu henw yn esbonio beth ydynt: maent yn ysbytai cyffredinol. Yr ydych newydd ddweud eich hun bod llawer o’n gwasanaethau yn fregus. Maent yn fregus gan eu bod o dan bwysau ac oherwydd na allwn ni recriwtio meddygon. Un o’r rhesymau na allwn ni recriwtio meddygon i bob gwasanaeth yw, os nad oes gennych chi’r màs critigol sy’n caniatáu i feddygon gael y datblygiad proffesiynol y maent yn chwilio amdano, ni fyddant yn dod. Dyna stori yr wyf i’n ei chlywed. Felly, pan gyfeiriaf at ganolfannau arbenigol, mae’n debyg mai’r hyn yr wyf yn sôn amdano yw canolfan arbenigol i rywun sydd wedi cael trawiad ar y galon, oherwydd rydym yn gwybod bod gan rywun sydd wedi cael angioplasti o fewn amser penodol well siawns o wella. Dyna’r hyn sydd o dan sylw gennym; yr ydym yn edrych ar sut y gall pobl gael canlyniadau gwell.

The public health Bill will probably be introduced in two or three years. It is something that officials are looking at. It takes a long time for legislation to come through, and within the programme for government, that is going to be in that time frame.

Mae’n debyg y cyflwynir y Bil iechyd cyhoeddus ymhen dwy neu dair blynedd. Mae’n rhywbeth y mae swyddogion yn edrych arno. Mae’r broses ddeddfwriaethol yn cymryd amser hir, ac, fel rhan o’r rhaglen lywodraethu, caiff hyn ei gynnwys yn y cyfnod hwnnw.

You mentioned the 1000 Lives Campaign. That has been an excellent scheme. We now have 1000 Lives Plus. It really has shown leadership on the wards that we have not seen before, and it is really being taken forward. We had ‘Designed for Life’ and ‘Setting the Direction’, and this is building on those. I am saying that the status quo is not acceptable, and you are saying that you have heard that before. Maybe the funding situation, the overstretched services and the recruitment issues have all come together at this time to make sure that we now have to change, and we have to support the NHS in those changes.

Fe wnaethoch chi sôn am Ymgyrch 1000 o Fywydau. Mae hwnnw wedi bod yn gynllun rhagorol. Mae gennym bellach 1000 o Fywydau a Mwy. Mae hyn wedi arwain at arweinyddiaeth ar y wardiau nad ydym wedi’i gweld cyn hyn, ac mae wir yn cael ei gweithredu. Roedd gennym ni ‘Cynllun Oes’ a ‘Gosod y Cyfeiriad’, ac mae hyn yn adeiladu ar y rheiny. Yr wyf yn dweud nad yw’r status quo yn dderbyniol, ac yr ydych chi’n dweud eich bod wedi clywed hynny o’r blaen. Efallai bod y sefyllfa ariannol, y gwasanaethau sydd dan bwysau a’r materion recriwtio i gyd wedi dod ynghyd i wneud yn siŵr fod yn rhaid inni newid yn awr, ac mae’n rhaid inni gefnogi’r GIG yn y newidiadau hynny.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: I have been very generous with the time that I have allowed opposition spokespeople for their preambles, because this is a very important subject indeed. I have four speakers remaining and I want to call them all. I therefore urge you to ask a single question each: you will not be allowed a preamble and I will cut you off if you attempt to make one.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Yr wyf wedi bod yn hael iawn gyda’r amser yr wyf wedi’i ganiatáu i lefarwyr y gwrthbleidiau o ran eu rhagymadroddi, oherwydd mae hwn yn bwnc pwysig iawn. Mae gennyf bedwar siaradwr yn weddill ac yr wyf am alw pob un ohonynt. Felly, fe’ch anogaf i ofyn un cwestiwn yr un: ni chewch chi ragymadroddi a byddaf yn diffodd eich meicroffon os gwnewch chi hynny.

Rebecca Evans: My question is to do with ICT, particularly in rural areas. Beyond what you have already announced, what services do you intend to implement along the lines of the telehealth and telemedicine model? How will you invest in ICT equipment to ensure that rural areas are able to take advantage of these initiatives, particularly in terms of broadband? What discussions have you had with the Minister on that?

Rebecca Evans: Mae fy nghwestiwn i yn ymwneud â thechnoleg gwybodaeth a chyfathrebu, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Ymhellach i’r hyn yr ydych chi eisoes wedi’i gyhoeddi, pa wasanaethau yr ydych yn bwriadu eu gweithredu ar lun y model teleiechyd a thelefeddygaeth? Sut y byddwch yn buddsoddi mewn offer TGCh i sicrhau bod ardaloedd gwledig yn gallu manteisio ar y mentrau hyn, yn enwedig o ran band eang? Pa drafodaethau yr ydych chi wedi’u cael gyda’r Gweinidog ynghylch hynny?

Lesley Griffiths: I thank the member for Mid and West Wales. NHS informatics plays a huge role in the NHS right across Wales, and not just in rural areas. It is important that health professionals have the ability to share information, because that will lead to better outcomes for patients. Teleservices are fundamental to supporting care closer to home and to improving the way in which we deliver integrated services in the future. So, within the health plan, telemedicine and telehealth initiatives are ensuring that people who live in rural areas have better access to care.

Lesley Griffiths: Diolch i’r Aelod dros Ganolbarth a Gorllewin Cymru. Mae gwasanaeth gwybodeg y gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol yn chwarae rôl fawr yn y GIG ledled Cymru, ac nid yn unig mewn ardaloedd gwledig. Mae’n bwysig bod gan weithwyr iechyd proffesiynol y gallu i rannu gwybodaeth, oherwydd bydd hynny’n arwain at ganlyniadau gwell i gleifion. Mae telewasanaethau yn hanfodol er mwyn cefnogi gofal yn nes at y cartref ac er mwyn gwella’r ffordd yr ydym yn darparu gwasanaethau integredig yn y dyfodol. Felly, fel rhan o’r cynllun iechyd, mae mentrau telefeddygaeth a theleiechyd yn sicrhau bod gan bobl sy’n byw mewn ardaloedd gwledig fynediad gwell at ofal.

3.45 p.m.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Mae negeseuon dryslyd, anghyson ac, yn wir, camarweiniol yn dod o gyfeiriad y Blaid Lafur y prynhawn yma. Wrth ymosod ar y gwrthbleidiau, yr ydych yn ymosod ar rai o’ch cyd-Aelodau yn y grŵp Llafur. Gofynnaf ichi achub ar y cyfle i fod yr un mor watwarus o’ch cyd-Aelodau yn eich sylwadau ysgubol y prynhawn yma.

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Confused, inconsistent and, indeed, misleading messages are coming from the Labour Party this afternoon. In attacking the opposition parties, you are also attacking some of your fellow Members in the Labour group. I ask you to take this opportunity to be just as demeaning of your fellow Members in your sweeping comments this afternoon.

Mae eich gweledigaeth yn sôn y bydd ysbytai cyffredinol dosbarth, erbyn 2016, yn dod i raddau helaeth yn safleoedd adfer i nifer o gleifion a fydd wedi derbyn triniaeth acíwt, arbenigol, o bosibl, yn rhywle arall. Bydd hynny’n golygu y bydd miloedd o gleifion ychwanegol yn cael eu cludo o un safle i safle arall. Nid oes cyfeiriad yn y weledigaeth at oblygiadau sylweddol hynny i’r gwasanaeth ambiwlans, nac, yn wir, sut y bydd dyfodol y gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn ehangach yn dod yn rhan o’r weledigaeth hon, sy’n amryfusedd sylweddol yn fy marn i.

Your vision says that district general hospitals, by 2016, will become to a large extent recovery sites for many patients who will have received acute and potentially specialised treatments elsewhere. That will mean that thousands of additional patients will be carried from one site to another. There is no reference in the vision to the significant implications of that for the ambulance service, or, indeed, to how the future of the ambulance service more broadly fits in to this vision, which is a great discrepancy in my opinion.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Order. Could you ask a question, please?

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Trefn. A wnewch ofyn cwestiwn, os gwelwch yn dda?

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: A allwch esbonio pam?

Llyr Huws Gruffydd: Can you explain why?

Lesley Griffiths: I do not mean to demean anyone. I am very protective of the NHS. We have an NHS in Wales to be proud of. I do not want to see scaremongering, nor do I want to hear talk about downgrading. That comment is not aimed at anyone in particular; I am just responding to those who have asked questions.

Lesley Griffiths: Nid yw’n fwriad gennyf i fychanu unrhyw un. Yr wyf i’n amddiffynnol iawn o’r gwasanaeth iechyd gwladol. Mae gennym wasanaeth iechyd yng Nghymru i fod yn falch ohono. Nid wyf am weld codi bwganod, ac nid wyf am glywed sôn am israddio. Nid yw’r sylw hwnnw wedi ei anelu at unrhyw un yn benodol; dim ond ymateb i’r rhai sydd wedi gofyn cwestiynau ydwyf i.

You asked about the ambulance service. Yesterday, I met the chairs of the local health boards and the trusts, and the chair of the ambulance service was at that meeting. It is obviously a matter of huge importance that, when LHBs bring forward their service changes, they take certain matters into account—David Rees mentioned public transport, and we also have to look at whether ambulances can transport patients. Those discussions are ongoing.

Gofynasoch am y gwasanaeth ambiwlans. Ddoe, cyfarfûm â chadeiryddion y byrddau iechyd lleol a’r ymddiriedolaethau, ac yr oedd cadeirydd y gwasanaeth ambiwlans yn y cyfarfod hwnnw. Mae’n amlwg yn fater o bwys mawr, pan fo byrddau iechyd lleol yn cyflwyno newidiadau i’w gwasanaethau, eu bod yn ystyried materion penodol—crybwyllodd David Rees drafnidiaeth gyhoeddus, ac y mae’n rhaid inni hefyd edrych i weld a all ambiwlansys gludo cleifion. Mae’r trafodaethau hynny’n parhau.

Janet Finch-Saunders: Minister, you talked about funding levels and the fact that Wales now faces a tougher financial future in relation to the health service than it has for many years. However, is this not a direct result of the actions of the Labour Welsh Government, which is cutting the health budget by hundreds of millions of pounds, thereby causing an axe to hover over front-line services, while also impacting on future recruitment? Do you not feel that it is now time to review that decision and, for once, to do a U-turn on something that will benefit the people of Wales?

Janet Finch-Saunders: Weinidog, soniasoch am lefelau cyllid a’r ffaith bod Cymru bellach yn wynebu dyfodol ariannol llymach o ran y gwasanaeth iechyd nag y mae wedi ei wneud ers blynyddoedd lawer. Fodd bynnag, onid yw hyn yn ganlyniad uniongyrchol i weithredoedd Llywodraeth Lafur Cymru, sy’n torri’r gyllideb iechyd drwy gannoedd o filiynau o bunnoedd, gan achosi i fwyell hofran dros wasanaethau rheng flaen, tra hefyd yn effeithio ar recriwtio yn y dyfodol? Oni theimlwch ei bod yn bryd bellach i adolygu’r penderfyniad hwnnw ac, am unwaith, i wneud tro pedol ar rywbeth a fydd o fudd i bobl Cymru?

Lesley Griffiths: No, I think that it is the fault of your Government in London, aided by the Liberal Democrats, for cutting our budget by £860 million. I will say what I always say—and I normally say it in response to Darren Millar, who I know is laid up somewhere else today: we have not cut the health budget; it is the only budget across the whole of the Government that has been protected.

Lesley Griffiths: Nac ydwyf, credaf mai ar eich Llywodraeth yn Llundain y mae’r bai, gyda chymorth y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol, am dorri ein cyllideb drwy £860 miliwn. Dywedaf yr hyn yr wyf bob amser yn ei ddweud—ac yr wyf fel arfer yn ei ddweud mewn ymateb i Darren Millar, y gwn ei fod yn ei wely yn sâl yn rhywle arall heddiw: nid ydym wedi torri’r gyllideb iechyd; dyma’r unig gyllideb ar draws y Llywodraeth gyfan sydd wedi ei gwarchod.

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Weinidog, yr wyf yn ymuno â chi yn eich ymosodiad ar yr Aelodau Cynulliad sydd wedi bod yn codi bwganod, yn arbennig yn Llanelli, ynglŷn â lleihau lefel y gwasanaeth a ddarperir yn yr ysbyty cyffredinol yno. Efallai y byddai o gymorth i’r Aelod dros Lanelli pe baech yn diffinio beth yn union yr ydych yn ei olygu wrth ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth. A ydych yn datgan yn gwbl glir y prynhawn yma fod angen i ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth ddarparu’r gwasanaethau sylfaenol ar gyfer cleifion yn yr ardal honno ac mai dim ond gwasanaethau arbenigol a fyddai’n cael eu canoli mewn lleoliadau eraill?

Rhodri Glyn Thomas: Minister, I join you in your attack on Assembly Members who have been scaremongering, especially in Llanelli, about reducing the levels of service provided in the general hospital there. It might be useful for the Member for Llanelli if you were to define exactly what you mean by district general hospital. Are you saying clearly this afternoon that district general hospitals should provide basic services for patients in their areas, and that it is only specialised services that will be centred in other locations?

Lesley Griffiths: As I said before, the very title ‘district general hospital’ suggests that it will provide general services, whether or not you mean basic services. However, we have to ensure that those services are safe and sustainable. At the moment, those services are not safe and sustainable, and that is what we have to look for when the service change plans come through from the LHBs. The national clinical forum has been set up to look at those service changes from a clinical point of view to ensure that they are safe and sustainable.

Lesley Griffiths: Fel y dywedais o’r blaen, mae’r union deitl ‘ysbyty cyffredinol dosbarth’ yn awgrymu y bydd yn darparu’r gwasanaethau cyffredinol, waeth a ydych yn golygu gwasanaethau sylfaenol ai peidio. Fodd bynnag, mae’n rhaid i ni sicrhau bod y gwasanaethau hynny’n ddiogel ac yn gynaliadwy. Ar hyn o bryd, nid ydynt yn ddiogel ac yn gynaliadwy, a dyna’r hyn y mae’n rhaid i ni chwilio amdano wrth i’r cynlluniau newid gwasanaeth ymddangos gan y byrddau iechyd lleol. Sefydlwyd y fforwm clinigol cenedlaethol i edrych ar y newidiadau hynny o ran gwasanaeth o safbwynt clinigol er mwyn sicrhau eu bod yn ddiogel ac yn gynaliadwy.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Diolch yn fawr, Weinidog.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: Thank you, Minister.

Daeth y Llywydd i’r Gadair am 3.49 p.m.
The Presiding Officer took the Chair at 3.49 p.m.

Datganiad: Archwiliad yr Uned Safonau Ysgolion
Statement: School Standards Unit Stocktakes

The Minister for Education and Skills (Leighton Andrews): In my written statement in September, I provided an update on progress towards developing a national system of school banding and said that I would return to this as work is progressed. I want to do that now and to update Members on the work of the school standards unit.

Y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau (Leighton Andrews): Yn fy natganiad ysgrifenedig ym mis Medi, rhoddais y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf ar gynnydd tuag at ddatblygu system genedlaethol o fandio ysgolion a dywedais y byddwn yn dychwelyd at hyn wrth i’r gwaith fynd yn ei flaen. Rwyf am wneud hynny yn awr a diweddaru Aelodau ar waith yr uned safonau ysgolion.

We announced the intention to establish the school standards unit in February, as part of the drive to improve performance and to introduce challenge on a national basis. This unit is intended to act as a catalyst to generate ambition and, in turn, to improve performance outcomes.

Gwnaethom gyhoeddi’r bwriad i sefydlu’r uned safonau ysgolion ym mis Chwefror, fel rhan o’r ymgyrch i wella perfformiad ac i gyflwyno her yn genedlaethol. Bwriad yr uned hon yw gweithredu fel catalydd i greu uchelgais ac, yn ei thro, gwella canlyniadau perfformiad.

The unit has been in operation since May 2011, led by Dr Brett Pugh. Its role is very much about improvement by sharpening the use of data, strengthening accountability, making sure that consistent sharing of high-impact practice takes place across Wales, and evaluating policy implementation.

Mae’r uned wedi bod yn weithredol ers mis Mai 2011, dan arweiniad Dr Brett Pugh. Ei rôl yw gwella drwy wneud defnydd craffach o ddata, cryfhau atebolrwydd, gwneud yn siŵr bod rhannu cyson o ymarfer effaith uchel yn digwydd ar draws Cymru, a gwerthuso gweithredu polisi.

Since May, the unit has been working closely with key stakeholders and representatives of the sector in developing its methodology for carrying out its work. Key to its role in facilitating improvements across the school system is the process of stocktakes undertaken with local authorities at a regional consortia level. These stocktakes provide a framework for the unit to engage with the consortia and their constituent local authorities to review performance and agree priority actions. The stocktake process is based on detailed data analysis. This is crucial, as it provides a firm basis for bringing challenge into the process. Towards the end of the summer term, the unit undertook its first round of these stocktakes.

Ers mis Mai, mae’r uned wedi bod yn gweithio’n agos gyda rhanddeiliaid allweddol a chynrychiolwyr y sector wrth ddatblygu ei methodoleg ar gyfer cyflawni ei gwaith. Yn allweddol i’w rôl o ran hwyluso gwelliannau ar draws y system ysgol y mae’r broses o archwiliadau gydag awdurdodau lleol ar lefel consortia rhanbarthol. Mae’r archwiliadau hynny’n darparu fframwaith i’r uned ymgysylltu â’r consortia a’u hawdurdodau lleol cyfansoddol er mwyn adolygu perfformiad a chytuno ar weithrediadau blaenoriaeth. Mae’r broses o archwiliadau’n seiliedig ar ddadansoddi manwl o ddata. Mae hyn yn hanfodol, gan ei fod yn darparu sail gadarn ar gyfer dod â her i mewn i’r broses. Tua diwedd tymor yr haf, cynhaliodd yr uned ei rownd gyntaf o’r archwiliadau hyn.

Some of the themes to emerge from the data analysis were not a surprise. In particular, there were significant differences in the percentages of pupils eligible for free schools meals and those not eligible for free schools meals attaining the level 2 threshold inclusive of English/Welsh first language and mathematics. As I have said on numerous occasions, I want to see this gap in performance being addressed—along with improving numeracy and literacy, it is one of our three priorities.

Nid oedd rhai o’r themâu a ddeilliodd o’r dadansoddiad o ddata yn peri syndod. Yn arbennig, roedd gwahaniaethau sylweddol rhwng y disgyblion sydd yn gymwys i gael prydau ysgol am ddim a’r rhai nad ydynt yn gymwys i gael prydau ysgol am ddim o ran y ganran sydd yn cyrraedd trothwy lefel 2, gan gynnwys Saesneg/Cymraeg iaith gyntaf a mathemateg. Fel yr wyf wedi ei ddweud ar sawl achlysur, rwyf am weld y bwlch perfformiad hwn yn cael ei daclo—ynghyd â gwella rhifedd a llythrennedd, mae’n un o’n tair blaenoriaeth.

I am pleased by the impact so far of the work of the unit. For many participants in the stocktakes, this was the first time that they had engaged on a regional consortium level in this type of forensic analysis to identify and develop action, and to share good practice as a basis for intervening to secure improvements. These stocktakes will now be a termly event, and the next round will begin in north Wales on 22 November. They will be focused on setting targets for schools, because robust targets are central to the delivery of a more coherent and robust accountability model. They will also set progress against the actions agreed during the first round of stocktakes.

Yr wyf yn falch o effaith gwaith yr uned hyd yn hyn. Dyma’r tro cyntaf i lawer o gyfranogwyr i’r archwiliadau gymryd rhan yn y math hwn o ddadansoddiad fforensig ar lefel consortiwm rhanbarthol er mwyn adnabod a datblygu camau gweithredu, ac i rannu arfer da fel sail ymyrryd er mwyn sicrhau gwelliannau. Bydd yr archwiliadau hyn yn ddigwyddiad tymhorol o hyn ymlaen, a bydd y rownd nesaf yn dechrau yng ngogledd Cymru ar 22 Tachwedd. Byddant yn canolbwyntio ar osod targedau ar gyfer ysgolion, gan fod targedau cadarn yn ganolog i gyflwyno model atebolrwydd mwy cydlynol a chadarn. Byddant hefyd yn gosod cynnydd yn erbyn y camau gweithredu y cytunwyd arnynt yn ystod rownd gyntaf yr archwiliadau.

I am now pleased to update Members on the significant advances made in terms of developing a national system of banding of schools. The core purpose for the introduction of a national system of banding is to give us a clearer focus on performance and progress. It is about providing a consistent approach to grouping schools according to where they are on their improvement journey. Let us be clear: banding is not about labelling, naming and shaming or creating divisive league tables. It is a starting point for consortia and local authorities to discuss performance, and a basis for making decisions about directing resources. It is also a starting point for the school standards unit to discuss performance with consortia during termly stocktakes.

Yr wyf yn falch yn awr o roi i’r Aelodau y wybodaeth ddiweddaraf am y cynnydd sylweddol a wnaed o ran datblygu system genedlaethol o fandio ysgolion. Prif bwrpas cyflwyno system genedlaethol o fandio yw rhoi ffocws cliriach ar berfformiad a chynnydd. Mae’n ymwneud â darparu dull cyson o grwpio ysgolion yn ôl eu lleoliad ar y daith gwella. Gadewch inni fod yn glir: nid yw bandio yn ymwneud â labelu, enwi a chywilyddio neu greu tablau cynghrair cynhennus. Mae’n fan cychwyn i gonsortia ac awdurdodau lleol drafod perfformiad, ac yn sail ar gyfer gwneud penderfyniadau am gyfeirio adnoddau. Mae hefyd yn fan cychwyn i’r uned safonau ysgolion drafod perfformiad gyda chonsortia yn ystod yr archwiliadau tymhorol.

Over the last few months, the school standards unit has worked with representatives of the sector and other key stakeholders in developing a banding model for secondary schools. On 15 September, provisional banding data based on data up to and including 2010 examination data were issued to secondary schools. The banding was based on analyses of four groups of data relating to recent performance and progress, taking account of the level of deprivation and other socioeconomic factors. The four data groups and the indicators used reflect my priorities of literacy, numeracy and reducing the impact of deprivation on educational outcomes.

Dros y misoedd diwethaf, mae’r uned safonau ysgolion wedi gweithio gyda chynrychiolwyr y sector a rhanddeiliaid allweddol eraill wrth ddatblygu model bandio ar gyfer ysgolion uwchradd. Ar 15 Medi, anfonwyd data bandio dros dro, yn seiliedig ar ddata hyd at ac yn cynnwys data arholiadau 2010, at ysgolion uwchradd. Roedd y bandio yn seiliedig ar ddadansoddiad o bedwar grŵp o ddata yn ymwneud â pherfformiad a chynnydd diweddar, gan ystyried y lefel o amddifadedd a ffactorau economaidd-gymdeithasol eraill. Mae’r pedwar grŵp data a’r dangosyddion a ddefnyddir yn adlewyrchu fy mlaenoriaethau o lythrennedd, rhifedd a lleihau effaith amddifadedd ar ddeilliannau addysgol.

I have indicated all along that we will be transparent about the banding in terms of the methodology used and the outcomes for schools. I intend to meet this commitment. So, once we have validated data for the 2011 examinations, the banding will be updated and the revised information will be sent to schools. Banding information will then be made available on the Welsh Government website. I will provide a further update about the format and content of that information closer to publication.

Yr wyf wedi dweud o’r cychwyn y byddem yn agored ynghylch y bandio o ran y fethodoleg a ddefnyddir a’r canlyniadau ar gyfer ysgolion. Rwyf yn bwriadu cadw’r ymrwymiad hwn. Felly, unwaith y bydd gennym ddata wedi eu dilysu ar gyfer arholiadau 2011, bydd y bandio’n cael ei ddiweddaru ac anfonir y wybodaeth ddiwygiedig at ysgolion. Bydd gwybodaeth am fandio ar gael wedyn ar wefan Llywodraeth Cymru. Byddaf yn darparu diweddariad pellach am fformat a chynnwys y wybodaeth honno yn nes at ei chyhoeddi.

A model for the banding of primary schools is in the process of being developed based on similar principles, using national data sets, recent outcomes, progress and context. That work will continue over the course of this term. As with the secondary model, the school standards unit will work closely with representatives of the sector to develop the banding system for primary schools. The school standards unit will discuss a prototype primary banding model at its next round of stocktakes. I will provide updates to Assembly Members as this work develops.

Mae model ar gyfer bandio ysgolion cynradd yn y broses o gael eu datblygu yn seiliedig ar egwyddorion tebyg, gan ddefnyddio setiau data cenedlaethol, canlyniadau diweddar, cynnydd a chyd-destun. Bydd y gwaith hwnnw’n parhau yn ystod y tymor hwn. Fel yn achos y model uwchradd, bydd yr uned safonau ysgolion yn gweithio’n agos gyda chynrychiolwyr y sector i ddatblygu’r system fandio ar gyfer ysgolion cynradd. Bydd yr uned safonau ysgolion yn trafod model bandio cynradd prototeip yn ei rownd nesaf o archwiliadau. Byddaf yn rhoi diweddariadau i Aelodau’r Cynulliad wrth i’r gwaith hwn ddatblygu.

Angela Burns: I thank the Minister for his statement on the school standards units and the banding. I appreciate that it was an update, but I still have a host of questions, because I do not see that it is a clear enough situation.

Angela Burns: Diolch i’r Gweinidog am ei ddatganiad ar yr unedau safonau ysgolion a’r bandio. Yr wyf yn sylweddoli ei fod yn ddiweddariad, ond mae’n dal gennyf lu o gwestiynau, gan nad wyf yn meddwl bod y sefyllfa’n ddigon clir.

On the school standards units, you mention that you have been talking to local authorities about the best way forward. Could you update us on what discussions, if any, you have had with Estyn? How involved is Estyn in setting standards within the school standards units, and in giving answers on the stocktakes? There is no doubt that it has a view on each school that has been looked at.

Ar yr unedau safonau ysgolion, yr ydych yn dweud eich bod wedi bod yn siarad ag awdurdodau lleol am y ffordd orau ymlaen. A allech roi’r wybodaeth ddiweddaraf inni am ba drafodaethau, os o gwbl, a gawsoch gydag Estyn? Faint o gyfraniad y mae Estyn yn ei wneud wrth osod safonau o fewn yr unedau safonau ysgolion, ac wrth roi atebion ar yr archwiliadau? Nid oes amheuaeth fod ganddi farn am bob ysgol sydd wedi ei harchwilio.

With reference to the national system of banding, you state clearly what it is not about—I welcome that clarity—but you do not say what your aspirations are, or what you intend to do with the banding system. Do you have set figures for how many schools you want to see rising from one level of banding to another? What standards do you want from pupils, and by when would you like to see those standards achieved? You say that the school standards unit has worked with a number of representatives from the sector, but, in talks with sector representatives, how many secondary headteachers have you had dialogue with? I have met a number of headteachers who have raised real concerns about how this banding is going to work.

Gan gyfeirio at y system genedlaethol o fandio, yr ydych yn datgan yn glir yr hyn nad yw yn ei gylch—yr wyf yn croesawu’r eglurhad hwnnw—ond nid ydych yn dweud beth yw eich dyheadau chi, neu’r hyn yr ydych yn bwriadu ei wneud gyda’r system fandio. A ydych wedi gosod ffigurau ar gyfer faint o ysgolion yr ydych am eu gweld yn codi o un lefel o fandio i un arall? Pa safonau ydych yn eu disgwyl gan ddisgyblion, ac erbyn pryd yr hoffech weld y safonau hynny yn cael eu gwireddu? Yr ydych yn dweud bod yr uned safonau ysgolion wedi gweithio gyda nifer o gynrychiolwyr o’r sector, ond, mewn trafodaethau gyda chynrychiolwyr y sector, faint o benaethiaid ysgolion uwchradd ydych wedi cael deialog â hwy? Yr wyf wedi cwrdd â nifer o benaethiaid sydd wedi codi pryderon gwirioneddol ynghylch sut y bydd y bandio hwn yn gweithio.

What are you going to do to measure the quality of the intake? In answering an earlier question by Christine Chapman, you said that schools in deprived areas have had excellent results—the same as schools in better-off areas. Your implication was that it was down to the formula, the process or the methodology that the school was using. Taking that to the next step, saying that even in bad areas, or deprived areas, you could still get good standards—I have the statement here and I am happy to show it to you—what will you do to measure the intake or the quality of the people coming in? A school could meet all the criteria that you set, but it could have a cohort at that time that it was not able to work with. What will you be able to do to measure the quality of the cohort coming in?

Beth ydych chi’n mynd i’w wneud i fesur ansawdd y rhai sydd yn dod i mewn? Wrth ateb cwestiwn cynharach gan Christine Chapman, dywedasoch fod ysgolion mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig wedi cael canlyniadau rhagorol—yr un canlyniadau ag ysgolion mewn ardaloedd mwy cefnog. Eich awgrym chi oedd ei fod oherwydd y fformiwla, y broses neu’r fethodoleg yr oedd yr ysgol yn ei defnyddio. Gan gymryd hynny i’r cam nesaf a dweud y gallech, hyd yn oed mewn ardaloedd gwael neu ardaloedd difreintiedig, gael safonau da—mae gennyf y datganiad yma ac yr wyf yn hapus i’w dangos i chi—beth fyddwch yn ei wneud i fesur ansawdd y rhai sy’n dod i mewn? Gall ysgol gwrdd â’r holl feini prawf a osodwyd gennych, ond fod â charfan bryd hynny nad oedd yn gallu gweithio gyda hi. Beth fyddwch yn gallu ei wneud i fesur ansawdd y garfan sy’n dod i mewn?

Will you also address the issue of continuing professional development? One of your banding criteria is that you will measure absence against the take-up of free school meals. You and your officials were kind enough to brief us on that. One issue that I raised then, which still has not been answered, is how you are going to measure this, particularly in rural areas, when schools have had closures outside of their control. At present they are being asked to make up for those closures by using their in-service training days. If they must continue to do so, how can we enable teachers to undertake continuing professional development and raise standards in that criterion? I ask you to explain that criterion and how that can work going forward.

A wnewch chi hefyd fynd i’r afael â’r mater o ddatblygiad proffesiynol parhaus? Un o’ch meini prawf ar gyfer bandio yw mesur absenoldeb yn erbyn y nifer sy’n derbyn prydau ysgol am ddim. Roeddech chi a’ch swyddogion yn ddigon caredig i’n briffio ar hynny. Un mater a godais bryd hynny, sydd yn dal heb gael ateb, yw sut yr ydych yn mynd i fesur hyn, yn enwedig mewn ardaloedd gwledig, pan fydd ysgolion wedi gorfod cau am resymau y tu allan i’w rheolaeth. Ar hyn o bryd mae gofyn iddynt i wneud iawn am hynny drwy ddefnyddio eu diwrnodau hyfforddiant mewn swydd. Os oes yn rhaid iddynt barhau i wneud hynny, sut y gallwn alluogi athrawon i ymgymryd â datblygiad proffesiynol parhaus a chodi safonau o ran y maen prawf hwnnw? Yr wyf yn gofyn i chi esbonio’r maen prawf hwnnw a sut y gall hynny weithio yn y dyfodol.

I have seen some excellent schools that are pathfinders in their local education authorities, yet they have found themselves in what they perceive to be a lower band because of how the weighting works. What kind of message does that send out to headteachers and teachers who have made amazing strides in those particular areas? They are considered to be exemplars, yet they find themselves in a category that they believe does not reflect the work that they and their school has done, or the fact that they are leading their peer group. This goes back to the lack of clarity over the banding. I accept that it is not about trying to create league tables, but I have a real concern—reflected by people who have come to me to talk about it—that there are too many variations in the way that the criteria can be weighted. That sends out the wrong signals to many of the headteachers involved. Therefore, I would be grateful if you could tell us what discussions have been had with those headteachers.

Rwyf wedi gweld rhai ysgolion rhagorol sydd yn ysgolion braenaru yn eu hawdurdodau addysg lleol, ond eto maent wedi canfod eu hunain yn yr hyn y maent yn ei weld yn fand is oherwydd sut y mae’r pwysoli yn gweithio. Pa fath o neges y mae hynny’n ei anfon i brifathrawon ac athrawon sydd wedi cymryd camau anhygoel yn y meysydd penodol hynny? Maent yn cael eu hystyried fel rhai i’w hefelychu, ac eto maent yn canfod eu hunain mewn categori nad ydynt yn credu ei fod yn adlewyrchu’r gwaith y maent hwy a’u hysgol wedi ei wneud, na’r ffaith eu bod yn arwain eu grŵp cyfoedion. Mae hyn yn mynd yn ôl at y diffyg eglurder ynghylch y bandio. Yr wyf yn derbyn nad yw’n ymwneud â cheisio creu tablau cynghrair, ond mae gennyf bryder go iawn—sydd wedi’i adlewyrchu gan y bobl sydd wedi dod ataf i siarad am y peth—fod gormod o amrywiadau o lawer yn y ffordd y gall y meini prawf gael eu pwysoli. Mae hynny’n anfon y negeseuon anghywir i lawer o’r prifathrawon dan sylw. Felly, byddwn yn ddiolchgar pe allech ddweud wrthym pa drafodaethau sydd wedi cael eu cynnal gyda’r prifathrawon hynny.

4.00 p.m.

Leighton Andrews: I am disappointed by the response of the opposition spokesperson. I think that it is despicable to refer to deprived areas as bad areas and I hope that she will reflect on the words that she used in her questions and withdraw them subsequently.

Leighton Andrews: Yr wyf wedi’m siomi gan ymateb llefarydd yr wrthblaid. Credaf ei fod yn beth gwarthus i gyfeirio at ardaloedd difreintiedig fel ardaloedd gwael ac rwy’n gobeithio y bydd yn adlewyrchu ar y geiriau a ddefnyddiwyd ganddi yn ei chwestiynau a’u tynnu’n ôl wedi hynny.

Angela Burns rose—

Angela Burns a gododd—

The Presiding Officer: Order. Are you going to withdraw that comment?

Y Llywydd: Trefn. A ydych chi’n mynd i dynnu’r sylw hwnnw yn ôl?

Angela Burns: I absolutely do. It was a slip of the tongue and I did not intend to cast any aspersions. I meant that the results were bad, not the areas.

Angela Burns: Yn bendant. Llithriad ydoedd ac nid oeddwn yn bwriadu bwrw sen. Yr hyn yr oeddwn yn ei olygu oedd bod y canlyniadau yn wael, nid yr ardaloedd.

The Presiding Officer: You have withdrawn that remark, therefore.

Y Llywydd: Yr ydych wedi tynnu’r sylw hwnnw yn ôl, felly.

Angela Burns: I most certainly have.

Angela Burns: Yn bendant.

Leighton Andrews: I accept that.

Leighton Andrews: Yr wyf yn derbyn hynny.

In developing a banding system, we have tried to make it clear that we want a system that allows local authorities, working through the regional consortia in particular, to identify those schools that need particular support in order to improve. Our aspiration is that we will raise performance across the whole of Wales. We are looking to see improvements in schools that perhaps think that they are doing well, but, in practice, on the basis of the evidence that we have, may be coasting. Many of those schools may be in areas that are not regarded as deprived, and, in the past, have enjoyed relative success, but are perhaps not stretching their performance sufficiently. I remind the Chamber that a commitment to the grading of schools—that was the phrasing that we used—was in our manifesto for the May elections. We are determined to raise performance in schools in Wales.

Wrth ddatblygu system fandio, rydym wedi ceisio ei gwneud yn glir ein bod am gael system sy’n galluogi awdurdodau lleol, yn gweithio drwy gyfrwng y consortia rhanbarthol yn benodol, i nodi’r ysgolion hynny sydd angen cymorth arbennig i wella. Ein dyhead yw gwella perfformiad ar draws Cymru gyfan. Rydym eisiau gweld gwelliannau mewn ysgolion sydd efallai yn meddwl eu bod yn gwneud yn dda ond sydd, yn ymarferol, yn ôl y dystiolaeth sydd gennym, efallai yn hunan-fodlon. Efallai y bydd nifer o’r ysgolion hynny mewn ardaloedd na chânt eu hystyried yn ddifreintiedig, ac wedi cael rhywfaint o lwyddiant, ond efallai ddim yn ymestyn eu perfformiad ddigon. Rwyf yn atgoffa’r Siambr bod ymrwymiad i raddio ysgolion—dyna oedd y geiriau a ddefnyddiasom—yn ein maniffesto ar gyfer etholiadau mis Mai. Rydym yn benderfynol i wella perfformiad mewn ysgolion yng Nghymru.

It is inevitable that, in constructing an approach to the banding of schools for the first time, there will be arguments, disagreements, challenges and questions about the nature of the data and the particular band in which a school is placed. In some cases, for example, the fact that we have put weight on behaviour and attendance has caused some schools to find that they are in a band below the one in which they had expected to be. However, it is only right that we seek to improve attendance rates in Wales and to take up the issue of behaviour. We see that as part of the responsibility of school leadership.

Mae’n anochel, wrth fynd ati i greu ffordd o fandio ysgolion am y tro cyntaf, y bydd dadleuon, anghytundebau, heriau a chwestiynau am natur y data a’r band penodol y caiff ysgol ei rhoi ynddo. Mewn ambell i achos, er enghraifft, mae’r ffaith ein bod wedi rhoi pwyslais ar ymddygiad a phresenoldeb wedi peri i rai ysgolion ddarganfod eu bod mewn band is na’r un yr oeddent wedi disgwyl bod ynddo. Fodd bynnag, mae’n gwbl briodol ein bod yn ceisio gwella ffigurau presenoldeb yng Nghymru a cheisio mynd i’r afael ag ymddygiad. Rydym yn gweld hynny fel rhan o gyfrifoldeb arweinyddiaeth yr ysgol.

We have deliberately tried to engage with opposition parties in the development of the banding work, and the opposition spokesperson referred to the technical briefing that my officials afforded her and others. The evidence that we have on developing banding is that it is not a simple process; it is complicated. We have been at pains to answer queries, and my officials have answered many queries from schools about the bands in which they have found themselves. That is why we decided to commence with the development of provisional banding for secondary schools in September, based on the 2010 examination results, among other factors, and to reach the final banding, using the up-to-date 2011 data as one of the elements, in December. It is more difficult to provide a banding system for primary schools, and we are working hard with local authorities and the regional consortia to develop a banding system. The work that has been done by the school standards unit has been challenging for local authorities. It is based on best practice and it has forced local authorities to engage very seriously indeed with the real nature of the schools in their areas.

Rydym wedi gwneud ymdrech fwriadol i drafod gyda’r gwrthbleidiau wrth ddatblygu’r gwaith bandio, a chyfeiriodd llefarydd yr wrthblaid at y briffio technegol a roddodd fy swyddogion iddi hi ac eraill. Y dystiolaeth sydd gennym ar ddatblygu bandio yw nad yw hi yn broses syml; mae’n gymhleth. Rydym wedi gwneud pob ymdrech i ateb ymholiadau, ac mae fy swyddogion wedi ateb nifer o ymholiadau gan ysgolion am y bandiau y maent wedi canfod eu hunain ynddynt. Dyna pam yr ydym wedi penderfynu dechrau mynd ati i ddatblygu bandio dros dro ar gyfer ysgolion uwchradd ym mis Medi, yn seiliedig ar ganlyniadau arholiadau 2010, ymysg ffactorau eraill, ac i gyrraedd y bandio terfynol, gan ddefnyddio data diweddaraf 2011 fel un o’r meini prawf, ym mis Rhagfyr. Mae’n anos darparu system fandio ar gyfer ysgolion cynradd, ac rydym yn gweithio’n galed gydag awdurdodau lleol a’r consortia rhanbarthol i ddatblygu system fandio. Mae’r gwaith a wnaed gan yr uned safonau ysgol wedi creu tipyn o her i awdurdodau lleol. Mae’n seiliedig ar arfer gorau ac y mae wedi gorfodi awdurdodau lleol i ystyried yn ddifrifol iawn gwir natur yr ysgolion yn eu hardaloedd.

I want to say a word about the difference between what is being done in respect of banding and the work that is done by Estyn in terms of its inspection framework. Estyn’s role is to assess independently the quality of education delivery on a periodic basis. The role of the school standards unit is to facilitate improvements across the school system as a whole and to sharpen the use of data and the accountability for performance at a local level. Through banding, we are trying to group our schools according to a range of factors to identify priorities for differentiated support.

Yr wyf eisiau dweud gair am y gwahaniaeth rhwng beth sy’n cael ei wneud o ran bandio a’r gwaith a wneir gan Estyn o ran ei fframwaith arolygu. Rôl Estyn yw asesu yn annibynnol ansawdd yr addysg a ddarperir yn rheolaidd. Rôl yr uned safonau ysgol yw hwyluso gwelliannau ar draws y system ysgol ar y cyfan a mireinio’r defnydd o ddata a wneir a’r atebolrwydd ar gyfer perfformiad yn lleol. Drwy fandio, yr ydym yn ceisio grwpio ysgolion yn ôl amryw o ffactorau er mwyn nodi blaenoriaethau ar gyfer gwahanol fathau o gymorth.

We are also seeking to ensure that schools learn from one another and from schools in similar situations, which is why we made available in earlier years the core data sets for families of schools. It is fair to say, on the basis of what we have learned over time, and what has been learned in other administrations as well, that, as I have said before in this Chamber, the evidence is—Estyn has also confirmed this—schools that deliver in deprived areas are taking very similar approaches to schools in other areas. They are engaging with the whole family, they have a real focus on the wider community, and they set high standards. That has to be a priority for us in Wales. We want high aspirations, not low aspirations, we want to learn from the best, and we want to engage with world-class teaching and learning.

Rydym hefyd yn ceisio gwneud yn siŵr bod ysgolion yn dysgu oddi wrth ei gilydd a gan ysgolion mewn sefyllfaoedd tebyg, a dyna pam yr ydym wedi rhyddhau y setiau data craidd ar gyfer teuluoedd o ysgolion. Mae’n deg dweud, ar sail yr hyn yr ydym wedi ei ddysgu dros amser, a’r hyn a ddysgwyd mewn gweinyddiaethau eraill hefyd, mai’r dystiolaeth yw, fel y dywedais o’r blaen yn y Siambr hon—mae Estyn hefyd wedi cadarnhau hyn—bod ysgolion sy’n cyflawni mewn ardaloedd difreintiedig yn meddu ar ddull tebyg iawn i ysgolion mewn ardaloedd eraill. Maent yn ymwneud â’r holl deulu, mae ganddynt ffocws cryf ar y gymuned yn ehangach, ac maent yn gosod safonau uchel. Dyna ddylai ein blaenoriaeth fod yng Nghymru. Rydym eisiau dyheadau uchel, nid dyheadau isel, rydym eisiau dysgu gan y gorau, ac rydym eisiau i’r addysgu a’r dysgu fod o’r safon uchaf.

Simon Thomas: Yn gyntaf, diolchaf i’r Gweinidog am ddod â’r datganiad hwn gerbron y Cynulliad, ac am gadw at ei air, felly, i’n diweddaru ynglŷn â dwy agwedd ar ei waith sy’n bwysig iawn, sef dadansoddi data tu fewn i ysgolion, a’r gwaith rhagbaratoawl i roi ysgolion uwchradd mewn bandiau. Croesawaf y wybodaeth yn ei ddatganiad ynglŷn â’r stocktake, fel y mae’n cael ei alw. Soniodd am rai o’r canfyddiadau, yn enwedig y gagendor rhwng y plant sy’n derbyn prydau ysgolion am ddim a’r rhai nad ydynt yn eu derbyn. A wnaiff fanteisio ar y cyfle i sôn am unrhyw beth arall sydd wedi dod yn sgîl y dadansoddiad? A oes rhywbeth yn wahanol i’r disgwyl, er enghraifft, neu rywbeth sydd wedi peri pryder iddo, neu rywbeth y dylid edrych arno yn y tymor byr? Byddai’n braf cael gwybod am hynny yn awr, os yw’n bosibl, yn hytrach na chael gwybod ymhen chwech neu naw mis, pan fydd y bandiau llawn yn cael eu cyhoeddi.

Simon Thomas: First, I thank the Minister for bringing this statement before the Assembly, and for keeping his word to update us on two aspects of his work that are very important, namely analysing data within schools, and the preparatory work of banding secondary schools. I welcome the information that he provided in the statement regarding the stocktake, as it is called. He mentioned some of the discoveries, particularly the gulf between children who receive free school meals and those who do not. Will he take this opportunity to tell us more about what has emerged from the analysis? Is there anything unexpected, for example, or anything that has caused him concern, or anything that he believes should be addressed in the short term? It would be nice to hear about that now, if possible, rather than being told about it in six or nine months’ time, when the full banding will be announced.

Hefyd, gan edrych ar agwedd bwysig ar y gwaith hwn, sef y berthynas rhwng yr hyn yr ydym yn disgwyl i’n plant ei gyflawni a’r amddifadedd yn eu cartrefi, mae wedi sôn yn glir yma, ac yn y pwyllgor, am ddefnyddio darpariaeth prydau ysgol am ddim fel dangosydd o amddifadedd. Nid yw’n cynrychioli amddifadedd yn llawn, ond mae’n ddangosydd sy’n cael ei ddefnyddio gan y Llywodraeth yn gyffredinol. Mae’r Dirprwy Weinidog Plant a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol wedi sôn yn y gorffennol am y posibilrwydd o ganfod dangosyddion mwy cywir na phrydau ysgol am ddim. A yw’n bwriadu gwneud gwaith tebyg, er mwyn sicrhau bod y canlyniadau mor finiog ac wedi’u targedu ag y bo modd? Derbyniaf nad yw’n bosibl gwneud hynny’n awr, ond a yw’n fwriad ganddo a’r Llywodraeth weithio ar dargedau amddifadedd sydd yn dipyn cliriach ac wedi’u ffocysu na phrydau ysgol am ddim?

Also, looking at an important aspect of this work, namely the relationship between what we expect our children to achieve and the deprivation in their backgrounds, he has mentioned clearly here, and in committee, the use of the take-up of free school meals as an indicator for deprivation. It does not represent deprivation in its entirety, but it is an indicator that is generally used by the Government. The Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services has mentioned in the past the possibility of discovering more precise indicators of deprivation than the take-up of free school meals. Does he intend to do anything similar in his field to ensure that the results are as well-honed and targeted as possible? I accept that he cannot do it now, but is it his intention, and the intention of Government, to work on deprivation targets that are a little more clear and focused than the take-up of free school meals?

Gan droi at fandio ei hun, croesawaf y datganiad—yr ail ddatganiad, mewn ffordd—nad tablau cynghrair yw’r rhain. Croesawaf hynny’n fawr. Nid yw Plaid Cymru’n cefnogi tablau cynghrair, ac ni chredaf fod y Gweinidog yn eu cefnogi ychwaith. Yr oedd yn rhyfedd clywed yr hyn a oedd gan lefarydd y Torïaid i’w ddweud, gan mai’r Torïaid a gyflwynodd dablau cynghrair yn y lle cyntaf; ond hen hanes yw hynny erbyn hyn. Fodd bynnag, pan fydd y bandiau yn cael eu cyhoeddi tuag adeg y Nadolig, fel y dywedodd yn ei ddatganiad, neu pryd bynnag, credaf y bydd ymgais gan rai yn y cyfryngau i ailwampio’r tablau a’u cyhoeddi fel tablau cynghrair. Bydd rhywun yn ceisio gwneud hynny, gan ddweud pa ysgolion yw’r gorau a’r gwaethaf yng Nghymru. Er mor ddiffygiol y bydd hynny, yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd yn stori dda am ddiwrnod, felly bydd yn werth i rywun ei wneud. A fyddai’n cytuno, felly, mai’r hyn sy’n bwysig dros yr wythnos nesaf, ac yn sicr a ddylai gael ei gyhoeddi pan welwn y bandiau ar eu ffurf derfynol, yw’r camau a gymerir gan y gwahanol awdurdodau addysg, a’r consortia rhanbarthol yn benodol, i wella dau beth o bwys—dulliau dysgu yn yr ysgolion hynny sydd yn cael eu gweld fel rhai sydd ar ei hôl hi, a hyfforddiant mewn swydd i athrawon i’w helpu i wella safonau yn yr ysgolion hynny?

Turning to banding itself, I welcome the statement—the second statement, in a sense—that these are not league tables. I very much welcome that. Plaid Cymru does not support league tables, and I do not think that the Minister supports them either. It was strange to hear what the Tory spokesperson had to say, because the Tories introduced these league tables in the first place, but that is old news now. However, when these bands are published around Christmas, as he stated this afternoon, or whenever, I think that there will be an attempt by some in the media to rejig these bands and publish them as league tables. Someone will try to do that and to say which are the best and worst schools in Wales. Despite how deficient that will be, I am sure that it will be a good story for a day and therefore worth someone’s doing that. Would he therefore agree that what is important over the next few weeks, and certainly should be published when we see the bands in their final form, are the steps being taken by the various education authorities, and the regional consortia in particular, to improve two important things—the teaching methods in those schools that are seen to be falling behind, and continuing professional development for teachers to assist them to improve standards in those schools?

Yn olaf, ac ar y pwynt hwnnw’n benodol, er bod y bandio ar hyn o bryd yn fandio dros dro, mae’n siŵr ei fod wedi nodi rhai ysgolion nad ydynt ar y ffin rhwng gwahanol fandiau. Nid ydym yn sôn am yr ysgolion hynny sydd ar y ffin, ond yr ysgolion sy’n methu neu sydd ar fin methu’n sylweddol. A yw’r Gweinidog wedi sicrhau bod camau yn cael eu cymryd, er bod y bandiau yn rhai dros dro, i wella safonau yn yr ysgolion hynny sydd ar ei hôl hi yn ôl y system fandio?

Finally, and specifically on that point, although the current banding is provisional, I am sure that it has identified some schools that are not on the border between different bands. We are not talking about those schools, but the schools that are failing or about to fail significantly. Has the Minister ensured that steps are in place, although the banding is provisional, to improve standards in those schools that are falling behind according to the banding system?

Leighton Andrews: I thank the Plaid Cymru spokesperson for his support for what we are doing. We need a more sophisticated use of data within the education system in Wales and that has been the purpose of the stocktake. It has thrown up a real challenge to local authorities as to how they assess the existing performance within schools. That is the real impact that that is having and it is making all local authorities look carefully at the way in which they are engaging with the schools in their area and the responsibility that they have for driving up school improvement.

Leighton Andrews: Diolch i lefarydd Plaid Cymru am ei gefnogaeth i’r hyn yr ydym yn ei wneud. Mae angen i ni ddefnyddio data yn fwy soffistigedig yn y system addysg yng Nghymru a dyna fu pwrpas yr ymarfer hwn. Mae wedi gosod her sylweddol i awdurdodau lleol o ran sut y maent yn asesu’r perfformiad ar hyn o bryd mewn ysgolion. Dyna’r gwir effaith y mae’n ei gael ac y mae’n gwneud i awdurdodau lleol edrych yn ofalus ar y modd y maent yn ymwneud ag ysgolion yn eu hardal a’r cyfrifoldeb sydd arnynt i wella safonau mewn ysgolion.

The banding methodology has been worked through with representatives of the Association of Directors of Education in Wales and Estyn has also looked at it. There has been broad support that the spread of measures within the banding system is generally reflective of those factors necessary to make judgments about performance. One reason for releasing provisional banding was to enable schools and local authorities to engage effectively in understanding the challenges that they face and the way in which the system would work in the future.

Mae’r fethodoleg fandio wedi cael ei thrafod gyda chynrychiolwyr Cymdeithas Cyfarwyddwyr Addysg Cymru ac y mae Estyn hefyd wedi edrych arno. Cafwyd cefnogaeth eang bod yr amrywiaeth o fesurau yn y system fandio yn adlewyrchu yn gyffredinol y ffactorau hynny y mae eu hangen i ddod i farn am berfformiad. Un rheswm dros ryddhau bandio dros dro oedd i alluogi ysgolion ac awdurdodau lleol i ddeall yn effeithiol yr heriau y maent yn eu hwynebu a’r ffordd y byddai’r system yn gweithio yn y dyfodol.

In respect of free school meals versus non-free school meals, and whether that is a useful proxy for deprivation, as I have said to the Member in committee, it is the best that we have at present. There are other measures of deprivation, such as the Welsh index of multiple deprivation, but, at a school level, these are perhaps the most effective data that we have. The Communities First partnerships tell me very often that some of the indicators that they have do not allow them to measure their own performance and the impact that they are having on a macro level, and that is one of the difficulties that we face. We need effective data that are meaningful and allow meaningful comparisons between schools in similar situations. That is what the free school meals data allow us.

O ran prydau ysgol am ddim yn erbyn peidio â chael prydau ysgol am ddim, ac a ydyw hynny’n ffon fesur ddefnyddiol ar gyfer difreintedd, fel y dywedais wrth yr Aelod yn y pwyllgor, dyna’r gorau sydd gennym ar hyn o bryd. Ceir mesurau difreintedd eraill, fel mynegai amddifadedd lluosog Cymru, ond, o ran ysgolion, dyma’r data mwyaf effeithiol sydd gennym o bosibl. Dywed y partneriaethau Cymunedau yn Gyntaf wrthyf yn aml iawn nad yw rhai o’r dangosyddion sydd ganddynt yn eu galluogi i fesur eu perfformiad eu hun a’r effaith y maent yn ei gael ar lefel lai, a dyna un o’r anawsterau a wynebwn. Mae arnom angen ddata effeithiol sy’n ystyrlon ac sy’n galluogi cymariaethau ystyrlon i gael eu gwneud rhwng ysgolion mewn sefyllfaoedd tebyg. Dyna mae’r data prydau ysgol am ddim yn ein galluogi i wneud.

In respect of the use of the outcomes of the banding process by the media, we live in a world subject to the Freedom of Information Act 2000. I am not looking to repeal the Freedom of Information Act, and I am not sure that anyone in this Chamber is seeking to do that, but, given its existence, nearly all public data can be obtained by media organisations. I sometimes think that some media organisations would have far less news to report if they did not make such use of the Freedom of Information Act to gather information. On one occasion this year, a media organisation used the Freedom of Information Act to construct its own attempt at league tables. It was up to that organisation to do that, although I made it clear that I did not regard that as appropriate and that I did not agree with the conclusions that it had drawn. However, we live in a world in which people expect to have access to public information. People want those data—parents want those data—and, if presented in a contextualised way, they are valuable. What I object to is the use of simplistic league tables, as is done in England, for example, which sets school against school and catchment area against catchment area. That is wrong and destructive.

O ran defnyddio canlyniadau y broses fandio gan y cyfryngau, rydym yn byw mewn byd sy’n ddarostyngedig i Ddeddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth 2000. Nid yw’n fwriad gennyf geisio diddymu y Ddeddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth, ac nid wyf yn siŵr ai dyna yw bwriad unrhyw un yn y Siambr, ond, o ystyried ei bodolaeth, mae modd i’r cyfryngau gael gafael ar y rhan fwyaf o ddata cyhoeddus. Rwy’n meddwl weithiau y byddai gan rai sefydliadau cyfryngau lawer llai o newyddion i’w adrodd pe na baent yn defnyddio cymaint ar y Ddeddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth i gasglu gwybodaeth. Ar un achlysur eleni, defnyddiodd un sefydliad cyfryngau y Ddeddf Rhyddid Gwybodaeth i geisio creu tablau cynghrair ei hun. Mater i’r sefydliad oedd gwneud hynny, er y dywedais yn glir nad oeddwn yn meddwl ei fod yn briodol ac fy mod yn anghytuno â’r casgliadau y daeth iddynt. Fodd bynnag, rydym yn byw mewn byd lle mae pobl yn disgwyl cael mynediad i wybodaeth gyhoeddus. Mae pobl eisiau y data hynny—mae rhieni eisiau y data hynny—ac os cânt eu cyflwyno yn eu cyd-destun cywir, maent yn werthfawr. Yr hyn yr wyf yn ei wrthwynebu yw defnyddio tablau cynghrair sydd wedi eu gor-symleiddio, fel y gwneir yn Lloegr, sy’n gosod ysgol yn erbyn ysgol a dalgylch yn erbyn dalgylch. Mae hynny’n anghywir ac yn ddinistriol.

In respect of support for schools as a result of the process of the banding, I am encouraged by what has been done in some parts of Wales by some of the consortia in looking at the performance of school improvement services on a regional basis. There has been particular progress in south-west Wales, where authorities have come together and identified opportunities, by working on a regional basis, to provide more effective school improvement services through intervention from people working within the system, as leaders within schools whose time can be bought out to enable them to assist other schools. As a result of looking across a number of authorities, they have also identified how they can produce savings that can then be released to the front line to enable local authorities to meet their commitments to ensure that 85 per cent of their budgets are delegated to schools within four years, which is the commitment that they have given us.

O ran cefnogaeth i ysgolion o ganlyniad i broses y bandio, rwyf wedi fy nghalonogi gan yr hyn a wnaed mewn ambell ran o Gymru gan ambell un o’r consortia o ran edrych ar berfformiad gwasanaethau gwella ysgolion yn rhanbarthol. Bu cynnydd arbennig yn ne-ddwyrain Cymru, lle y mae awdurdodau wedi dod ynghyd a nodi cyfleoedd, drwy weithio yn rhanbarthol, i ddarparu gwasanaethau gwella ysgolion yn fwy effeithiol drwy ymyrraeth gan bobl sy’n gweithio o fewn y system, fel arweinwyr mewn ysgolion y gellir prynu eu hamser i’w galluogi i helpu ysgolion eraill. O ganlyniad i edrych ar draws nifer o awdurdodau, maent hefyd wedi nodi sut y gallant wneud arbedion sydd wedyn yn gallu cael eu rhyddhau i’r rheng flaen i alluogi awdurdodau lleol i gwrdd â’u hymrwymiadau i sicrhau bod 85 y cant o’u cyllidebau yn cael eu dyrannu i ysgolion o fewn pedair blynedd, sef yr ymrwymiad y maent wedi ei roi i ni.

4.15 p.m.

Aled Roberts: I also welcome the statement. Like Angela Burns and Simon Thomas, I thank you for the technical briefing that your officials gave. Given the view held across the Chamber that there is a need to improve school standards, I hope that that engagement with officials will continue throughout the development stage because, as you state, the unit has only been in existence since May. Time is yet young, but if we see nothing else during this Assembly term, we must see an improvement in the educational standards in our country. I also acknowledge what you said, considering my experience in Wrexham, that the challenge of the whole banding issue and school improvement will be to not only those schools that are not performing well, but those that are perceived to be performing well but are in fact coasting. That was the issue for us. I do not know if you are in a position to give us any further information today on this, but it worries me that, when we were involved in discussions regarding the regional service in north Wales, the differences in the levels at which data were collected in different authorities were staggering. One of the issues that the consortia face is the investment that will be needed by individual authorities to bring them up to a common standard. I therefore ask you whether you are confident that the data upon which this current stocktake has been undertaken are sufficiently robust, given the differences between the various authorities. Also, what opportunity will Members have to consider the quality of those data?

Aled Roberts: Rwyf innau hefyd yn croesawu’r datganiad. Fel Angela Burns a Simon Thomas, yr wyf yn diolch i chi am y brîff technegol a roddodd eich swyddogion. O ystyried y farn sydd ar draws y Siambr fod angen gwella safonau ysgolion, rwy’n gobeithio y bydd y cysylltiad hwnnw gyda swyddogion yn parhau drwy gydol y cyfnod datblygu oherwydd, fel y dywedoch, dim ond ers mis Mai mae’r uned wedi bodoli. Mae’n gynnar yn y dydd, ond os na welwn unrhyw beth arall yn ystod y tymor Cynulliad hwn, rhaid i ni weld gwelliant yn safonau addysgiadol ein gwlad. Rwyf hefyd yn cydnabod beth a ddywedoch, o ystyried fy mhrofiad yn Wrecsam, y bydd her yr holl fater bandio a gwella ysgolion nid yn unig yn her i’r ysgolion nad ydynt yn perfformio’n dda, ond hefyd i’r rhai y tybir eu bod yn perfformio’n dda ond sydd, mewn gwirionedd, yn hunanfodlon. Dyna oedd y broblem i ni. Wn i ddim a ydych chi mewn sefyllfa i roi rhagor o wybodaeth i ni am hyn heddiw, ond mae’n bryder i mi, pan yr oeddem yn cael trafodaethau am y gwasanaeth rhanbarthol yn y gogledd, bod gwahaniaethau anferth yn y modd y cesglir data mewn awdurdodau gwahanol. Un o’r materion mae’r consortia yn ei wynebu yw’r buddsoddiad a fydd ei angen gan awdurdodau unigol i ddod â hwy i safon gyffredin. Gofynnaf felly a ydych yn ffyddiog bod y data a fu’n sail i’r archwiliad diweddaraf a gynhaliwyd yn ddigon cadarn, o ystyried y gwahaniaeth rhwng yr awdurdodau amrywiol. Hefyd, pa gyfle a gaiff Aelodau i ystyried ansawdd y data hynny?  

Leading on from that, once the schools that require improvement are identified, whether they are coasting or otherwise, what degree of challenge will there be to the responses given by individual authorities to your department regarding the actions schools will take to improve performance? Finally, as far the consortia are concerned, if, as in north Wales’s case, there is a collection of six authorities and the agency decides that prominence has to be given to schools in bands 4 and 3 and those schools are concentrated in certain geographical areas, how satisfied are you that the authorities that are not going to benefit to the same extent from the school improvement agency will be willing to take a democratic decision for their resources to be spent in what they perceive to be other areas?

Yn arwain o hynny, unwaith y caiff yr ysgolion sydd angen eu gwella eu nodi, pa un a ydynt yn hunan-fodlon neu fel arall, faint o her fydd yna i’r ymatebion a roddir gan awdurdodau unigol i’ch adran o ran y camau y bydd ysgolion yn eu cymryd i wella perfformiad? Yn olaf, o ran y consortia, os bydd casgliad o chwech awdurdod, fel sydd yn achos y gogledd, a bod yr asiantaeth yn penderfynu y dylid blaenoriaeth i ysgolion ym mandiau 3 a 4 a bod yr ysgolion hynny wedi eu canolbwyntio mewn ardaloedd daearyddol penodol, pa mor fodlon ydych chi y bydd yr awdurdodau na fydd yn elwa i’r un graddau o’r asiantaeth gwella ysgolion yn barod i wneud penderfyniad democrataidd i’w hadnoddau gael eu gwario mewn ardaloedd maent yn tybio nad ydynt yn perthyn iddynt hwy?

Leighton Andrews: I thank the Liberal Democrat spokesperson for his welcome of the technical briefing. We would hope to build consensus in the Chamber on the approach we are taking to banding. We are very happy to share further information and dialogue with Members about how that is being developed. It was a manifesto commitment of my party that we would have a grading system, and we intend to take that forward, but we would like to build consensus around it. He is right to raise the issue of coasting schools. That will be exposed in the work that is going on through the banding process, because there will be an understanding of how schools are performing against a broad range of measures. People will then understand how they are doing compared to similar schools that face similar challenges. It will focus the attention of school leaderships on whether they are reaching their full potential. That is important in this process. It will also mean that those data are available to governors and we would expect them to be looking at the data. It will also be available to local authorities and to the consortia.

Leighton Andrews: Diolch i lefarydd y Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol am groesawu’r brîff technegol. Byddem yn gobeithio dod i gonsensws yn y Siambr am y ffordd rydym yn mynd ati i greu’r bandio. Rydym yn hapus iawn i rannu rhagor o wybodaeth a deialog gydag Aelodau am sut mae hynny yn cael ei ddatblygu. Roedd yn ymrwymiad maniffesto gan fy mhlaid y byddai system raddio gennym, ac rydym yn bwriadu datblygu hynny, ond hoffem ddod i gonsensws amdano. Mae’n iawn i godi’r mater am ysgolion hunanfodlon. Bydd hynny’n cael ei amlygu yn y gwaith sy’n mynd ymlaen drwy’r broses fandio, gan y bydd dealltwriaeth o sut mae ysgolion yn perfformio yn erbyn ystod helaeth o fesurau. Bydd pobl yn deall wedyn sut maent yn gwneud o gymharu ag ysgolion tebyg sy’n wynebu heriau tebyg. Bydd yn canolbwyntio sylw arweinwyr ysgolion ar pa un a ydynt yn cyrraedd eu potensial llawn. Mae hynny’n bwysig yn y broses hon. Bydd hefyd yn golygu bod y data hynny ar gael i lywodraethwyr a byddem yn disgwyl iddynt edrych ar y data. Bydd ar gael i awdurdodau lleol ac i’r consortia.  

He is right to raise the issue of the different ways in which some authorities collect data, and I hope that we have been able to smooth out some of those differences through the working consortia. The basis on which people are working in consortia has been developing and significant progress has been made in some parts of Wales, particularly in recent months. We have made clear that we are willing to facilitate work where we can. If additional support is needed, we will seek to put it in place to develop work on a consortia basis. Data will get better as people work together on this, but we have to start somewhere. The school standards unit will lead the challenge to local authorities. I regard the work of the unit as being among the most important of my department at present and I know that officials in the department understand that.

Mae’n iawn i godi’r mater am y ffyrdd gwahanol mae ambell i awdurdod yn casglu data, a gobeithio ein bod wedi gallu cael gwared ar rai o’r gwahaniaethau hynny drwy’r consortia sydd ar waith. Mae’r sail y mae pobl yn gweithio arni yn y consortia wedi bod yn datblygu ac fe wnaed cynnydd sylweddol mewn ambell i ran o Gymru, yn enwedig yn y misoedd diwethaf. Rydym wedi dweud yn glir ein bod yn fodlon hwyluso gwaith lle bynnag y gallwn. Os bydd angen cymorth ychwanegol, byddwn yn ceisio ei roi ar waith er mwyn datblygu gwaith ar sail consortia. Bydd data yn gwella wrth i bobl gydweithio ar hyn, ond rhaid i ni ddechrau yn rhywle. Bydd yr uned safonau ysgolion yn arwain yr her i awdurdodau lleol. Rwy’n ystyried bod gwaith yr uned ymysg y pwysicaf yn fy adran ar hyn o bryd a gwn fod swyddogion yn fy adran yn deall hynny.  

The Member is also right to raise the issue of what happens in a consortium if it becomes clear that there is a concentration of need for support in particular areas, and whether there will be democratic buy-in. There is a significant incentive for local authorities to collaborate in the regional consortia. I have made it clear publicly on a number of occasions that if they do not collaborate in consortia, they will lose school effectiveness funding. Sometimes, we have to have a range of sticks and carrots to ensure that there is effective collaboration.

Mae’r Aelod hefyd yn iawn i godi’r mater am beth sy’n digwydd mewn consortiwm os daw yn amlwg fod angen canolbwyntio cymorth mewn ardaloedd penodol, a pa un a fydd cefnogaeth ddemocrataidd. Mae cymhelliad sylweddol i awdurdodau lleol weithio ar y cyd yn y consortia rhanbarthol. Rwyf wedi dweud yn glir yn gyhoeddus sawl gwaith y byddant yn colli arian effeithiolrwydd ysgolion os nad ydynt yn gweithio ar y cyd mewn consortia. Weithiau, mae’n rhaid i ni feddu ar amryw o gymhellion er mwyn sicrhau bod gweithio ar y cyd effeithiol. 

Cynnig Cydsyniad Deddfwriaethol Atodol: Bil Senedd y DU ynghylch Addysg
Supplementary Legislative Consent Motion on the Education Bill

Cynnig NDM4835 Leighton Andrews

Motion NDM4835 Leighton Andrews

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog 29.6, yn cytuno y dylai Senedd y DU ystyried, yn ychwanegol at y darpariaethau y cyfeirir atynt yng nghynigion NNDM4731 ac NNDM4660, y darpariaethau hynny y daethpwyd â hwy gerbron yn y Bil Addysg sy’n ymwneud â phwerau i osod cosb ariannol, adennill costau, derbyn apelau, rhoi cyfarwyddiadau a thynnu cydnabyddiad yn ôl oddi ar gyrff sy'n cael eu cydnabod, i'r graddau y maent yn dod o fewn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru.

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales, in accordance with Standing Order 29.6, agrees that, in addition to the provisions referred to in motions NNDM4731 and NNDM4660, those provisions which have been brought forward in the Education Bill relating to powers to impose a monetary penalty, recover costs, receive appeals, give directions and withdraw recognition from recognised bodies, insofar as they fall within the legislative competence of the National Assembly for Wales, should be considered by the UK Parliament.

The Minister for Education and Skills (Leighton Andrews): I move the motion.

Y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau (Leighton Andrews): Cynigiaf y cynnig.

Thank you for the opportunity to explain the background to the legislative consent motion in relation to the Education Bill. The legislative consent motion is required because a Government amendment to the Bill laid on 13 October 2011 falls within the Assembly’s legislative competence. The legislative consent motion fully details the relevant Bill provision and I am content that it would be expedient for us to allow the Westminster Government to legislate on our behalf on this issue.

Diolch am y cyfle i egluro’r cefndir i’r cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol mewn perthynas â’r Bil Addysg. Mae angen y cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol gan fod gwelliant gan y Llywodraeth i’r Bil a osodwyd ar 13 Hydref 2011 yn disgyn o fewn cymhwysedd deddfwriaethol y Cynulliad. Mae’r cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol yn rhoi’r manylion llawn am y ddarpariaeth berthnasol yn y Bil ac rwy’n fodlon y byddai’n gyfleus i ni ganiatáu Llywodraeth San Steffan i ddeddfu ar ein rhan ar y mater hwn.

I will briefly outline the legislative provision being sought in the Bill and the requirement for consent. The amendment will insert new clauses into the Education Bill in relation to the regulation of qualifications in Wales. These clauses will allow Welsh Ministers to impose monetary penalties to recover the costs incurred in doing so and give directions to, or withdraw recognition from, a recognised body that awards qualifications in Wales where there has been a failure to comply with regulatory conditions. The timing of the Education Bill will allow these new powers of sanction to be in place by the summer 2012 examination season and will be applied as appropriate if there are any errors. We are taking these steps to maintain a consistent and proportionate approach to the regulation of recognised examining bodies that operate in both England and Wales and to ensure that Welsh Ministers have the same powers in Wales as Ofqual has over qualifications in England. Without this amendment, different regulatory arrangements would apply in England and Wales, even though recognised bodies that operate in both England and Wales offer broadly the same qualifications in each country.

Fe amlinellaf yn fyr y ddarpariaeth ddeddfwriaethol sy’n cael ei cheisio yn y Bil a’r gofyn am gydsyniad. Bydd y gwelliant yn mewnosod cymalau newydd yn y Bil Addysg mewn perthynas â rheoleiddio cymwysterau yng Nghymru. Bydd y cymalau hyn yn galluogi Gweinidogion Cymru i osod dirwyon ariannol i adennill y costau wrth wneud hynny a rhoi cyfarwyddyd i, neu dynnu cydnabyddiaeth yn ôl wrth, gorff cydnabyddedig sy’n dyfarnu cymwysterau yng Nghymru lle bu methiant i gydymffurfio ag amodau rheoleiddiol. Bydd amseriad y Bil Addysg yn galluogi’r pwerau cosbi newydd hyn i fod yn eu lle erbyn tymor arholiadau'r haf yn 2012 a bydd yn cael ei gymhwyso fel y bo’n briodol os bydd unrhyw gamgymeriadau. Rydym yn cymryd y camau hyn er mwyn bod yn gyson a chymesur o ran rheoleiddio cyrff arholi cydnabyddedig sy’n gweithredu yng Nghymru a Lloegr ac i sicrhau bod gan Weinidogion Cymru yr un pwerau yng Nghymru ag sydd gan Ofqual dros gymwysterau yn Lloegr. Heb y gwelliant hwn, byddai trefniadau rheoleiddio gwahanol yn gymwys yng Nghymru a Lloegr, er bod cyrff cydnabyddedig sy’n gweithredu yng Nghymru a Lloegr yn cynnig yr un cymwysterau yn fras yn y ddwy wlad.  

Prior to this amendment, Welsh Ministers and Ofqual would have to apply the prejudice test, which constrained our ability to act swiftly and proportionately if an awarding organisation failed to comply with regulatory conditions imposed by either qualifications regulator. These amendments will remove the prejudice test, which will help to provide an effective and flexible system of sanctions for the regulation of the qualifications system in Wales and England. These amendments also make provisions for recognised bodies to appeal against any monetary penalty imposed by Welsh Ministers. I consider it appropriate to deal with these provisions in this Bill as they are desirable legislative changes and a similar approach is also being taken in Northern Ireland.

Cyn y gwelliant hwn, byddai’n rhaid i Weinidogion Cymru ac Ofqual gymhwyso’r prawf rhagfarnu, a oedd yn cyfyngu ar ein gallu i weithredu’n gyflym a chymesur pe bai sefydliad dyfarnu yn methu â chydymffurfio ag amodau rheoleiddio a osodwyd gan un o’r rheoleiddwyr cymwysterau. Bydd y gwelliannau hyn yn diddymu’r prawf rhagfarnu, a fydd yn helpu i ddarparu system gosbi effeithiol a hyblyg er mwyn rheoleiddio’r system cymwysterau yng Nghymru a Lloegr. Mae’r gwelliannau hyn hefyd yn gwneud darpariaethau i gyrff cydnabyddedig apelio yn erbyn unrhyw gosb ariannol a osodwyd gan Weinidogion Cymru. Rwy’n ystyried ei bod yn briodol delio â’r darpariaethau hyn yn y Bil hwn gan eu bod yn newidiadau deddfwriaethol rydym yn dymuno eu gweld ac mae Gogledd Iwerddon hefyd yn mynd ati mewn ffordd debyg.  

As previously mentioned, the well-publicised events during this summer’s examinations highlighted the need for regulators to take swift action against awarding organisations. While these amendments will not of themselves prevent issues such as those that we saw in the summer, they signal the importance that regulators place on the robustness of the awarding organisations’ processes for exams. The Bill represents an ideal opportunity to enable these provisions to apply in Wales at the earliest possible juncture; therefore, I place the legislative consent motion before the Assembly for its approval.

Fel y soniais eisoes, roedd y digwyddiadau a gafodd gryn sylw yn ystod arholiadau yr haf hwn yn amlygu bod angen i reoleiddwyr gymryd camau cyflym yn erbyn sefydliadau dyfarnu. Er na fydd y gwelliannau hyn ynddynt eu hunain yn atal problemau fel y rhai a welsom yn yr haf, maent yn dangos y pwysigrwydd a rydd rheoleiddwyr ar ba mor gadarn yw prosesau cyrff dyfarnu ar gyfer arholiadau. Mae’r Bil yn gyfle delfrydol i alluogi’r darpariaethau hyn fod yn gymwys yng Nghymru cyn gynted ag y bod modd; felly, rwy’n gosod y cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol ger bron y Cynulliad iddo ei gymeradwyo.  

David Melding: Yesterday, I took the extraordinary step of writing to the Minister and making that letter available to all Assembly Members because the discussion that we had in the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee about the use of the legislative consent motion in this instance raised procedural concerns that we regard could have grave ramifications if it became routine practice. I say to Assembly Members at the outset that I appreciate the practical circumstances within which the Minister has had to operate. The points that I wish to put before you relate to procedure, and it is nothing at all to do with the policy objectives that are being pursued by the Minister. While I recognise that the issues covered in this LCM are substantial—and that is what causes us difficulty—they do probably attract cross-party consensus, so that makes the LCM more acceptable in the sense of what it is attempting to achieve.

David Melding: Ddoe, cymerais y cam anarferol iawn o ysgrifennu at y Gweinidog a sicrhau bod y llythyr hwnnw ar gael i bob Aelod Cynulliad gan fod y drafodaeth a gawsom yn y Pwyllgor Materion Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol am ddefnyddio cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol yn yr achos hwn yn creu pryderon gweithdrefnol a allai, yn ein barn ni, fod â goblygiadau difrifol pe bai’n dod yn arfer rheolaidd. Dywedaf wrth Aelodau Cynulliad ar y cychwyn fy mod yn deall yr amgylchiadau ymarferol y bu’n rhaid i’r Gweinidog weithredu ynddynt. Mae’r pwyntiau rwyf yn dymuno eu gwneud yn ymwneud â gweithdrefn, a dim oll i’w wneud â’r amcanion polisi mae’r Gweinidog yn mynd ar eu trywydd. Er fy mod yn cydnabod fod y materion a gwmpesir yn y CCD hwn yn sylweddol a dyna sy’n peri anhawster i ni-mae’n debyg eu bod yn denu consensws trawsbleidiol, felly mae hynny’n gwneud y CCD yn fwy derbyniol o ran yr hyn mae’n ceisio ei gyflawni.

However, an important constitutional issue is raised by this practice, and this has to be remarked upon. This matter is within our current legislative powers and could be dealt with by a Welsh Act in the Assembly. The matter is not trivial nor technical but substantial. The late use of this legislative consent motion means that a substantial matter of Welsh law, if this now proceeds, would not have been scrutinised fully, as is required under our Standing Orders. The lessons are clear: LCMs are best restricted to technical or minor matters. Where they deal with substantial issues, adequate time must be allowed for scrutiny in a committee. The Welsh Government needs to be mindful of these issues and note practice in Scotland, where inter-governmental liaison operates more smoothly, it would appear, and helps to avoid the late use of LCMs on substantial matters. I note that the Minister referred to this particular matter being the subject of an amendment on 13 October. If we had been in committee looking at this with him, we would have pressed him on when he first realised that the Westminster Government was going to proceed with these policy objectives. If that had been at an earlier date, it would have been better to have informed the Assembly much sooner.

Fodd bynnag, caiff mater cyfansoddiadol pwysig ei godi gan yr arfer hwn, ac mae angen dweud rhywbeth am hyn. Mae’r mater o fewn ein pwerau deddfwriaethol presennol a gellid delio ag ef gan Ddeddf Gymreig yn y Cynulliad. Nid yw’r mater yn un dibwys na thechnegol; mae’n un sylweddol. Mae’r defnydd hwyr o’r cynnig cydsyniad deddfwriaethol hwn yn golygu na fyddai craffu llawn wedi bod ar fater sylweddol yng nghyfraith Cymru, os yw hyn yn mynd yn ei flaen yn awr, fel sy’n ofynnol o dan ein Rheolau Sefydlog. Mae’r gwersi yn glir: mae’n well cyfyngu cynigion o’r fath i faterion technegol neu llai pwysig. Lle bynnag y maent yn delio â materion sylweddol, mae angen caniatáu digon o amser craffu mewn pwyllgor. Mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru gadw’r materion hyn mewn cof a nodi’r arfer yn yr Alban, lle mae cydgysylltu rhyng-lywodraethol yn gweithredu’n fwy llyfn, fe ymddengys, ac yn helpu i osgoi defnyddio cynigion o’r fath yn hwyr ar faterion sylweddol. Nodaf fod y Gweinidog wedi cyfeirio at y mater arbennig hwn fel rhywbeth a oedd yn destun gwelliant ar 13 Hydref. Pe baem wedi bod mewn pwyllgor yn edrych ar hyn gydag ef, byddem wedi ei holi pryd y sylweddolodd gyntaf fod Llywodraeth San Steffan am fynd yn ei blaen gyda’r amcanion polisi hyn. Pe bai hynny wedi bod ynghynt, byddai’n well pe bai wedi dweud wrth y Cynulliad yn llawer cynharach.

In future, the Welsh Government should ensure that the Assembly has sufficient notice of likely LCMs to allow appropriate scrutiny. If this is not possible, the LCM route should not be used unless there are compelling reasons to do so. In conclusion, LCMs can be an effective part of our constitutional procedures, but they should not be used to sub-contract significant matters of legislation, and they certainly should not be used without adequate scrutiny.

Yn y dyfodol, dylai Llywodraeth Cymru sicrhau bod y Cynulliad wedi cael digon o rybudd am gynigion tebygol er mwyn galluogi craffu priodol. Os nad oes modd gwneud hyn, ni ddylid defnyddio cynigion o’r fath oni bai fod rhesymau da dros wneud hynny. I gloi, gall cynigion o’r fath fod yn rhan effeithiol o’n gweithdrefnau cyfansoddiadol, ond ni ddylid eu defnyddio i is-gontractio materion deddfwriaeth sylweddol, ac yn bendant ni ddylid eu defnyddio heb graffu digonol.

Simon Thomas: I support the words of David Melding and may I say, before I address the policy issues, that Plaid Cymru also feels that this is not the appropriate way for us as a new legislative body to be passing legislation? This matter is completely within our purview; this should be part of a Welsh Bill becoming an Act. We will have a Bill proposal from the Government very shortly in this field and this matter could have been included in that Bill. I know that it would have left nine months or so without there being an equality of regulation, but the first question that we have to address is whether there is a need to legislate at all. That should always be our first question. We have no opportunity to answer that question, because we are now being given 15 minutes to decide not whether we should legislate, but to legislate through Westminster. That is not the appropriate way forward for us as a newly empowered legislative Assembly, and we should not be going down that route when we have the opportunity to pass our own Acts.

Simon Thomas: Rwy’n cefnogi geiriau David Melding a rhaid i mi ddweud, cyn fy mod yn ymdrin â’r materion polisi, fod Plaid Cymru hefyd yn teimlo nad hon yw’r ffordd briodol i ni fel corff deddfwriaethol newydd fod yn pasio deddfwriaeth. Mae’r mater hwn yn llwyr o fewn ein maes; dylai hyn fod yn rhan o Fil Cymreig cyn dod yn Ddeddf. Bydd gennym gynnig am Fil gan y Llywodraeth yn fuan iawn yn y maes hwn a gallai’r mater fod wedi ei gynnwys yn y Bil hwnnw. Gwn y byddai wedi gadael tua naw mis heb reoleiddio cyfartal, ond y cwestiwn cyntaf mae’n rhaid i ni ei ateb yw pa un a oes angen deddfu o gwbl. Dyna ddylai ein cwestiwn cyntaf fod bob tro. Nid oes cyfle gennym i ateb y cwestiwn hwnnw, achos nawr rydym yn cael 15 munud i benderfynu nid a ddylem ddeddfu, ond i ddeddfu drwy San Steffan. Nid dyna yw’r ffordd briodol ymlaen i ni fel Cynulliad deddfwriaethol gyda phwerau newydd, ac ni ddylem ddilyn y trywydd hwnnw pan fod gennym y cyfle i basio Deddfau ein hunain.

I find myself in an unfortunate position, therefore, as someone who wants to support the work of the Minister in this field, but who does not want it to be done this way, because we have not had any consultation with the stakeholders involved and there has been no analysis of the problems over the summer to which the Minister referred, which were exam papers being released early. There has been no analysis of whether this is a problem we need to address in Welsh legislation. We are simply piggybacking on a piece of legislation added late to a Bill that is going through Parliament. David Melding pointed out clearly why this is not the best way forward with regard to responding to Westminster initiatives, but I want to add that we should be seeing a better analysis from Welsh Government in advance of Bills going through Westminster—this Bill has been going through since last spring. We should see a better analysis of the potential in Bills to address the legislative needs, if necessary, of Welsh Ministers and Welsh Government. If this potential need was seen, we could have addressed it. Currently, it looks like, because some examining bodies have got it wrong over the summer, we are now bringing in legislation to impose fines on them. I would suggest that that is not really the right way to approach legislation.

Felly, rwy’n cael fy hun mewn sefyllfa anffodus, fel rhywun sydd am gefnogi gwaith y Gweinidog yn y maes hwn, ond sydd ddim eisiau iddo gael ei wneud yn y ffordd yma, achos ni chawsom unrhyw ymgynghori  gyda’r rhanddeiliaid sy’n rhan o hyn ac ni fu unrhyw ddadansoddiad o’r problemau dros yr haf y cyfeiriodd y Gweinidog atynt, sef papurau arholiad yn cael eu rhyddhau’n gynnar. Ni fu unrhyw ddadansoddiad o ba un a yw hyn yn broblem mae angen i ni ei datrys mewn deddfwriaeth Gymreig. Y cyfan rydym yn ei wneud yw neidio ar gefn darn o ddeddfwriaeth a ychwanegwyd yn hwyr at Fil sy’n mynd drwy’r Senedd. Amlinellodd David Melding yn glir pam nad hon yw’r ffordd orau ymlaen o ran ymateb i fentrau San Steffan, ond rwyf eisiau ychwanegu y dylem fod yn gweld dadansoddiad gwell gan Lywodraeth Cymru cyn i Filiau fynd drwy San Steffan-bu’r Bil yma yn mynd drwodd ers gwanwyn y llynedd. Dylem weld dadansoddiad gwell o’r potensial mewn Biliau i ymdrin ag anghenion deddfwriaethol, os bydd angen, Gweinidogion Cymru a Llywodraeth Cymru. Pe bai’r angen posibl hyn wedi cael ei weld, byddem wedi gallu ymdrin ag ef. Ar hyn o bryd, oherwydd bod ambell i gorff arholi wedi gwneud smonach dros yr haf, mae’n edrych fel ein bod yn cyflwyno deddfwriaeth er mwyn gosod dirwyon arnynt. Awgrymaf nad dyna wir yw’r ffordd iawn i fynd ati i ddeddfu.

4.30 p.m.

I will conclude with three clear questions for the Minister. He is now using Westminster legislation to legislate for Wales. In Westminster, certain key things are being done. For a start, Ofqual has given the full promise of 12-week consultation on the detailed implementation of the Westminster Bill. Will Welsh Ministers be doing the same?

Yr wyf am orffen gyda thri chwestiwn clir ar gyfer y Gweinidog. Mae’n defnyddio deddfwriaeth San Steffan i ddeddfu ar gyfer Cymru bellach. Yn San Steffan, mae rhai pethau allweddol yn cael eu gwneud. I ddechrau, mae Ofqual wedi rhoi addewid lawn o ymgynghoriad 12 wythnos ar weithredu manwl Bil San Steffan. A fydd Gweinidogion Cymru yn gwneud yr un peth?

Secondly, Ofqual in England will be publishing a statement as part of the qualifications regulatory framework, setting out how it will use these new powers, including the power to impose fines. Will Welsh Ministers be doing the same? Will they be consulting on such a statement?

Yn ail, bydd Ofqual yn Lloegr yn cyhoeddi datganiad fel rhan o’r fframwaith rheoleiddio cymwysterau, yn nodi sut y bydd yn defnyddio’r pwerau newydd hyn, gan gynnwys y pŵer i osod dirwyon. A fydd Gweinidogion Cymru yn gwneud yr un peth? A fyddant yn ymgynghori ar y datganiad hwnnw?

Thirdly, in order to get the support of this House, will the Minister give an undertaking that any regulations that he will bring forward as a result of this piece of legislation will be submitted to the Assembly as part of the affirmative procedure? If we are giving rights to Ministers to exercise powers, we need to have some scrutiny of those powers down the line. The very least that can happen is some promise about consultation and the procedure to be used. It is actually too late. Today, Westminster is passing this piece of legislation, and we are giving our consent—or not giving our consent as the case may be—to something that has already been decided in another place. I suggest to you all, as Members who have been elected to a legislative chamber, that it is not the way that we should be proceeding over the next five years as a fully-fledged parliament.

Yn drydydd, er mwyn ennill cefnogaeth y Tŷ hwn, a fydd y Gweinidog yn rhoi addewid y bydd unrhyw reoliadau y bydd yn eu cyflwyno o ganlyniad i’r darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth yn cael eu cynnig i’r Cynulliad fel rhan o’r weithdrefn gadarnhaol? Os ydym yn rhoi hawliau i Weinidogion arfer pwerau, mae angen inni graffu ar y pwerau hynny yn nes ymlaen. Y peth lleiaf a allai ddigwydd ydyw addewid i ymgynghori a’r weithdrefn a gaiff ei defnyddio. Mae’n rhy hwyr mewn gwirionedd. Heddiw, mae San Steffan yn pasio’r darn hwn o ddeddfwriaeth, ac yr ydym yn rhoi ein caniatâd—neu beidio, yn ôl y digwydd—i rywbeth sydd eisoes wedi’i benderfynu mewn lle arall. Awgrymaf i chi i gyd, fel Aelodau a etholwyd i siambr ddeddfwriaethol, nad yn y ffordd honno y dylem barhau i weithio dros y pum mlynedd nesaf fel Senedd gyflawn.

Aled Roberts: I do not wish to prolong the debate. However, our group would wish to support the comments made by David Melding and Simon Thomas. It is a strange situation where, across the parties, we have no problem with the actual policy that has been adopted, but there is a certain degree of disquiet with regard to the procedure that is being used. If the Minister’s officials were given late notice of the intentions of the Westminster Government, it raises questions regarding the effectiveness of the inter-government arrangements with regard to procedures.

Aled Roberts: Nid wyf am hwyhau’r ddadl. Fodd bynnag, byddai ein grŵp ni’n dymuno cefnogi’r sylwadau a wnaed gan David Melding a Simon Thomas. Mae’n sefyllfa ryfedd, ar draws y pleidiau, lle nad oes gennym unrhyw broblem gyda’r union bolisi a fabwysiadwyd, ond mae rhywfaint o anesmwythyd o ran y weithdrefn sy’n cael ei defnyddio. Os rhoddwyd rhybudd hwyr o fwriadau Llywodraeth San Steffan i swyddogion y Gweinidog, mae’n codi cwestiynau ynglŷn ag effeithiolrwydd y trefniadau rhynglywodraethol o ran gweithdrefnau.

To support Simon Thomas’s comments, if this Assembly is to adopt a proper legislative function, which we all supported in March, then we need to know that we will have the opportunity, as a legislature, to scrutinise the process going forward. Therefore, I accept the situation that the Minister has been placed in, but it is the principle regarding the operation of this process, rather than the policy itself, that is causing concern.

I gefnogi sylwadau Simon Thomas, os yw’r Cynulliad hwn i fabwysiadu swyddogaeth ddeddfwriaethol briodol, y gwnaethom i gyd ei gefnogi ym mis Mawrth, yna mae angen inni wybod y bydd gennym y cyfle, fel deddfwrfa, i graffu ar y broses wrth symud ymlaen. Felly, yr wyf yn derbyn y sefyllfa y mae’r Gweinidog wedi cael ei roi ynddi, ond yr egwyddor ynghylch gweithrediad y broses hon, yn hytrach na’r polisi ei hun, sy’n peri pryder.

Leighton Andrews: The paradox is that no-one particularly disagrees with the policy that we are implementing, but people are concerned about the process. I understand the issues about the process, and I respect the way in which the Member for South Wales Central, in his role as Chair of the Constitutional and Legislative Affairs Committee, has raised them.

Leighton Andrews: Y paradocs yw nad oes yna unrhyw un, yn arbennig, sy’n anghytuno â’r polisi yr ydym yn ei weithredu, ond mae pobl yn pryderu am y broses. Deallaf y materion ynghylch y broses, ac yr wyf yn parchu’r ffordd y mae’r Aelod dros Ganol De Cymru, yn ei rôl fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Cyfansoddiadol a Deddfwriaethol, wedi eu codi.

We were placed in a situation where steps were being taken at a UK level in respect of issues that arose over the summer. Sometimes, you are presented with a legislative route that is efficacious but not necessarily the way that we would prefer, as a new legislature, to develop and implement our policy. The issue here relates to bodies that can award examination qualifications on a cross-border basis. It would be unfortunate if we ended up with a lacuna between the regulations that were being implemented in England and Wales. Therefore, it is right for us, on this occasion, to use this legislative route. Assuming the passage of the relevant clauses at Westminster, I will commit to do what I can in terms of consultation on implementation and to bring further discussion to the Chamber as appropriate.

Cawsom ein rhoi mewn sefyllfa lle cymerwyd camau ar lefel y DU mewn perthynas â materion a gododd yn ystod yr haf. Weithiau, cewch eich cyflwyno i lwybr deddfwriaethol sy’n effeithiol, ond nid o reidrwydd y ffordd y buasem ni’n ei ffafrio, fel deddfwrfa newydd, i ddatblygu a gweithredu ein polisïau. Mae’r mater hwn yn ymwneud â chyrff sy’n gallu dyfarnu cymwysterau arholiad ar sail drawsffiniol. Fe fyddai’n anffodus pe baem yn diweddu â bwlch rhwng y rheoliadau a oedd yn cael eu gweithredu yn Lloegr a Chymru. Felly, mae’n iawn inni, ar yr achlysur hwn, ddefnyddio’r llwybr deddfwriaethol hwn. Gan dybio y caiff y cymalau perthnasol eu pasio yn San Steffan, ymrwymaf i wneud popeth posibl o ran ymgynghori ar weithredu ac i ddod â thrafodaeth bellach i’r Siambr fel y bo’n briodol.

The Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree the motion. Are there any objections? I see that there are. I therefore defer all voting on this item until voting time.

Y Llywydd: Y cynnig yw y dylid derbyn y cynnig. A oes unrhyw wrthwynebiadau? Gwelaf fod. Felly, gohiriaf yr holl bleidleisio ar yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.
Voting deferred until voting time.

Adroddiad Blynyddol Comisiynydd Plant Cymru
The Annual Report of the Children’s Commissioner for Wales

The Presiding Officer: I have selected amendments 1 and 2 in the name of William Graham and amendments 3 and 4 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Y Llywydd: Yr wyf wedi dethol gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn enw William Graham a gwelliannau 3 a 4 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

Cynnig NDM4836 Jane Hutt

Motion NDM4836 Jane Hutt

Cynnig bod Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru:

To propose that the National Assembly for Wales:

Yn nodi Adroddiad blynyddol Comisiynydd Plant Cymru 2010-11 ac yn nodi y bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn ymateb yn ffurfiol iddo erbyn 31 Mawrth 2012.

Notes the Children’s Commissioner for Wales Annual report 2010-11 and that the Welsh Government will provide a formal response by 31 March 2012.

Y Dirprwy Weinidog Plant a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Gwenda Thomas): Cynigiaf y cynnig.

The Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services (Gwenda Thomas): I move the motion.

Yr wyf yn falch o groesawu pedwerydd adroddiad blynyddol Comisiynydd Plant Cymru. Hoffwn ddiolch i Keith Towler a’i dîm am eu gwaith wrth gyflwyno’r adroddiad hwn. Cyhoeddwyd yr adroddiad ar gyfer 2010-11 ym mis Hydref, ac mae’n nodi rhai pryderon newydd ynghyd â themâu cylchol nad yw’r comisiynydd yn credu iddynt gael sylw llawn. Bydd ein hymateb i’r adroddiad yn dod gerbron ym mis Mawrth y flwyddyn nesaf.

I am pleased to welcome the fourth annual report by the Children’s Commissioner for Wales. I would like to thank Keith Towler and his team for the work that they have undertaken in presenting this report. The report for 2010-11 was published in October. It notes some new concerns as well as some recurring themes that the commissioner believes have not yet been given full attention. Our response to the report will be forthcoming next March.

Turning to deal with the amendments, we are making every effort to join up services and to deliver through integrated family support teams, Families First and Flying Start. We have a Social Services Bill that will further support and integrate services, and the First Minister has also established a delivery unit in order to support this work. We are addressing the issues raised in the commissioner’s report in a timely and consistent manner, and progress on this will be covered in our full response to the report in March. There are other challenges facing young people in Wales that the commissioner does not address and that also require a response. For these reasons, we will oppose amendments 1 and 2.

I droi at ddelio â’r gwelliannau, yr ydym yn gwneud pob ymdrech i gydgysylltu gwasanaethau ac i gyflawni trwy dimau integredig cymorth i deuluoedd, Teuluoedd yn Gyntaf a Dechrau’n Deg. Mae gennym Fil Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol a fydd yn rhoi mwy o gymorth i wasanaethau ac yn eu hintegreiddio, ac mae’r Prif Weinidog hefyd wedi sefydlu uned gyflawni er mwyn cefnogi’r gwaith hwn. Yr ydym yn mynd i’r afael â materion a godwyd yn adroddiad y comisiynydd mewn modd prydlon a chyson, a chaiff y cynnydd ar hyn ei nodi yn ein hymateb llawn i’r adroddiad ym mis Mawrth. Mae heriau eraill sy’n wynebu pobl ifanc yng Nghymru nad yw’r comisiynydd yn rhoi sylw iddynt ac sydd hefyd angen ymateb. Am y rhesymau hyn, byddwn yn gwrthwynebu gwelliannau 1 a 2.

The commissioner’s report is published in October each year, in line with agreed protocols. The Welsh Government is required to respond by 31 March, and we need to allow sufficient time to respond fully to the issues raised. We will be working with the commissioner’s office to look at ways to make the reporting process simpler, to enable us to respond earlier than 31 March in future years. We are working to deliver on the action points presented in the report, and progress on this will be covered in a full response in March. We cannot agree timescales before we have made our response. Therefore, we will oppose amendments 3 and 4.

Cyhoeddir adroddiad y comisiynydd ym mis Hydref bob blwyddyn, yn unol â phrotocolau y cytunwyd arnynt. Mae angen ymateb Llywodraeth Cymru erbyn 31 Mawrth, ac mae arnom angen digon o amser i ganiatáu inni ymateb yn llawn i’r materion a godwyd. Byddwn yn gweithio gyda swyddfa’r comisiynydd i edrych ar ffyrdd o wneud y broses adrodd yn symlach, i’n galluogi i ymateb yn gynharach na 31 Mawrth yn y blynyddoedd i ddod. Yr ydym yn gweithio i gyflawni ar y pwyntiau gweithredu a gyflwynir yn yr adroddiad, ac ymdrinnir â’r cynnydd ar hyn mewn ymateb llawn ym mis Mawrth. Ni allwn gytuno amserlenni cyn inni ymateb. Felly, byddwn yn gwrthwynebu gwelliannau 3 a 4.

The Children and Young People Committee has met with the children’s commissioner since his report was published, and it has spent time considering the report’s contents. I intend to provide a detailed response to the committee’s concerns in due course. Our relationship with the children’s commissioner continues to be a strong one, and there is a willingness to engage in frank and open dialogue and to work co-operatively. However, we are facing real financial pressures over the coming years, and we will have hard choices to make. We will need to be clear about what our priorities are, and we are determined to continue to protect the children and young people’s agenda.

Mae’r Pwyllgor Plant a Phobl Ifanc wedi cwrdd â’r comisiynydd plant ers iddo gyhoeddi ei adroddiad, ac wedi treulio amser yn ystyried cynnwys yr adroddiad. Bwriadaf roi ymateb manwl i bryderon y pwyllgor maes o law. Mae ein perthynas gyda’r comisiynydd plant yn parhau’n un gref, ac mae parodrwydd i gymryd rhan mewn deialog gonest ac agored, ac i weithio ar y cyd. Fodd bynnag, yr ydym yn wynebu pwysau ariannol gwirioneddol dros y blynyddoedd nesaf, a bydd gennym ddewisiadau anodd i’w gwneud. Bydd angen inni fod yn glir ynghylch ein blaenoriaethau, ac yr ydym yn benderfynol o barhau i ddiogelu’r agenda plant a phobl ifanc.

The commissioner has brought many issues to our attention in his report, and I would like to highlight two developments that he makes particular mention of. He has commended the Assembly Commission for its work on participation, as it sought to encourage greater and more active participation of Welsh citizens in the democratic process, including the involvement of children and young people. The other development is the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011. The commissioner believes that this could be the most important piece of legislation for children and young people for many years. The Measure has enabled us to incorporate the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child into domestic law, and we are the first of the UK jurisdictions to take such a historic step forward. It has been recognised internationally that Wales is becoming a force in promoting a rights-based approach to children and establishing itself as the champion of children and young people’s rights.

Mae’r comisiynydd wedi dod â llawer o faterion i’n sylw yn ei adroddiad, a hoffwn dynnu sylw at ddau ddatblygiad y mae’n sôn yn benodol amdanynt. Mae ef wedi canmol Comisiwn y Cynulliad ar ei waith o ran cyfranogiad, wrth iddo geisio annog mwy o gyfranogiad gweithredol gan ddinasyddion Cymru yn y broses ddemocrataidd, gan gynnwys cyfranogiad plant a phobl ifanc. Datblygiad arall yw Mesur Hawliau Plant a Phobl Ifanc (Cymru) 2011. Mae’r comisiynydd yn credu mai hwn a allai fod y darn pwysicaf o ddeddfwriaeth ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc ers blynyddoedd lawer. Mae’r Mesur wedi ein galluogi i ymgorffori Confensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar Hawliau’r Plentyn i mewn i gyfraith ddomestig, a ni yw’r cyntaf o awdurdodaethau’r DU i gymryd cam mor hanesyddol â hyn. Cydnabuwyd yn rhyngwladol bod Cymru yn dod yn rym wrth hyrwyddo ymagwedd sy’n seiliedig ar hawliau i blant a sefydlu ei hun fel pencampwr dros hawliau plant a phobl ifanc.

We do this not only because it is the right thing to do, but because it is the one sure way to improve the wellbeing of every child and young person in Wales. The Welsh Government’s ‘Getting it Right’ five-year action plan highlights how we are moving forward in implementing the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child in Wales. In his report, the commissioner states his concern at the apparent lack of momentum in the issue of children’s budgeting. This is featured in the ‘Getting it Right’ action plan at priority 15. This shows how we are improving the transparency of budgeting for children and young people at Welsh Government level. Also, the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011 imposes a duty on Welsh Ministers to have due regard for the rights and obligations in the UNCRC. This will mean that balanced consideration will have to be given to the allocation of resources to influence the Government’s approach in setting the draft budget. This duty will be effective from May next year.

Yr ydym yn gwneud hyn nid yn unig oherwydd mai dyma’r peth cywir i’w wneud, ond oherwydd ei fod yn un ffordd sicr o wella lles pob plentyn a pherson ifanc yng Nghymru. Mae cynllun gweithredu pum mlynedd Llywodraeth Cymru, ‘Gwneud Pethau’n Iawn’, yn tynnu sylw at sut yr ydym yn symud ymlaen i weithredu Confensiwn y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar Hawliau’r Plentyn yng Nghymru. Yn ei adroddiad, mae’r comisiynydd yn nodi ei bryder am y diffyg momentwm o ran cyllidebu ar gyfer plant. Mae hyn yn ymddangos yn y cynllun gweithredu ‘Gwneud Pethau’n Iawn’ ym mlaenoriaeth 15. Mae hyn yn dangos sut yr ydym yn gwella tryloywder cyllidebu ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc ar lefel Llywodraeth Cymru. Hefyd, mae Mesur Hawliau Plant a Phobl Ifanc (Cymru) 2011 yn gosod dyletswydd ar Weinidogion Cymru i roi sylw dyledus i’r hawliau a’r rhwymedigaethau yn CCUHP. Bydd hyn yn golygu y bydd yn rhaid rhoi ystyriaeth gytbwys i ddyraniad yr adnoddau i ddylanwadu ar ymagwedd y Llywodraeth wrth osod y gyllideb ddrafft. Bydd y ddyletswydd hon yn weithredol o fis mai blwyddyn nesaf.

My written statement of 18 October set out the progress made in developing our approach for a stronger framework for safeguarding and protection. This follows time spent reflecting on and learning from a range of evidence, which included the report of the safeguarding children forum, of which the commissioner was a member. I am very grateful to the commissioner for his invaluable contribution to that work, which has been significant in developing my future work programme in this area. This statement, and my address to the local safeguarding children board conference in Swansea shortly after, builds on commitments in sustainable social services and the programme for government, and we will be engaging with stakeholders in the coming months.

Mae fy natganiad ysgrifenedig ar 18 Hydref yn gosod allan y cynnydd a wnaed wrth ddatblygu ein dull am fframwaith cryfach ar gyfer diogelu ac amddiffyn. Mae hyn yn dilyn cyfnod a dreuliwyd yn ystyried ac yn dysgu o amrywiaeth o dystiolaeth, a wnaeth gynnwys adroddiad y fforwm diogelu plant yr oedd y comisiynydd yn aelod ohono. Yr wyf yn ddiolchgar iawn i’r comisiynydd am ei gyfraniad hollbwysig i’r gwaith hwnnw, sydd wedi bod yn sylweddol wrth ddatblygu fy rhaglen waith at y dyfodol yn y maes hwn. Mae’r datganiad hwn, a fy anerchiad i gynhadledd y bwrdd lleol diogelu plant yn Abertawe yn fuan ar ei ôl, yn adeiladu ar ymrwymiadau yng ngwasanaethau cymdeithasol cynaliadwy a’r rhaglen lywodraethu, a byddwn yn ymgysylltu â rhanddeiliaid yn ystod y misoedd nesaf.

The commissioner continues to be concerned about the sexual exploitation and trafficking of children. It is a sad fact that there are people in society who will deliberately exploit, hurt and abuse our children. We have learnt over the years that the key to the early identification of child safeguarding issues is to ensure that our agencies work together and to equip professionals with good information. The Welsh Government has taken decisive action in recent years, and we have developed a dedicated online training resource and have appointed Wales’s first anti-human-trafficking co-ordinator. In January, I launched guidance to help safeguard children and young people against sexual exploitation, and, with the assistance of the children’s commissioner’s office, I am reviewing the effectiveness of this guidance and the training that we provide to support it. These are just some of the issues that the commissioner has highlighted in his report. I look forward to hearing Members’ comments. The Welsh Government will listen carefully and respond fully in due course to each of the issues raised.

Mae’r comisiynydd yn parhau’n bryderus am y camfanteisio’n rhywiol ar blant ac ar fasnachu mewn plant. Mae’n ffaith drist fod pobl mewn cymdeithas a fydd yn camfanteisio ar blant, eu brifo a’u cam-drin yn fwriadol. Yr ydym wedi dysgu dros y blynyddoedd mai’r allwedd i adnabod materion diogelu plant yn gynnar yw sicrhau bod ein hasiantaethau yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd ac i arfogi gweithwyr proffesiynol â gwybodaeth dda. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru wedi cymryd camau pendant yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, ac rydym wedi datblygu adnodd hyfforddi ar-lein pwrpasol ac wedi penodi cydgysylltydd atal masnachu pobl cyntaf Cymru. Ym mis Ionawr, lansiais ganllawiau i helpu i ddiogelu plant a phobl ifanc rhag camfanteisio rhywiol, a chyda chymorth swyddfa’r comisiynydd plant yr wyf yn adolygu effeithiolrwydd y canllawiau hyn a’r hyfforddiant a ddarparwn i’w gefnogi. Dim ond rhai o’r materion y tynnodd y comisiynydd sylw atynt yn ei adroddiad yw’r rhain. Edrychaf ymlaen at glywed sylwadau’r Aelodau. Bydd Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwrando’n ofalus ac yn ymateb yn llawn maes o law i bob un o’r materion a godwyd.

Daeth y Dirprwy Lywydd i’r Gadair am 4.43 p.m.
The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair at 4.43 p.m.

Gwelliant 1 William Graham

Amendment 1 William Graham

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add new point at end of motion:

Yn cydnabod y pryder a godwyd gan y Comisiynydd Plant:

Acknowledges concern raised by the Children’s Commissioner that:

a) nad yw strategaethau’n gweithio gyda’i gilydd nac yn gweithio ar lawr gwlad i wella bywydau plant;

a) there is a failure of strategies to work together and work on the ground to improve

the lives of children;

b) nad yw polisi na chyfraith genedlaethol yn cael eu gweithredu’n gyson; ac

b) there is a failure to consistently implement national law and policy; and

c) bod llinellau atebolrwydd yn annelwig, ac na chedwir at addewidion.

c) accountability lines are blurred, and that promises are un-kept.

Gwelliant 2 William Graham

Amendment 2 William Graham

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add new point at end of motion:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i fynd i’r afael â’r materion a godwyd yn yr adroddiad.

Calls on the Welsh Government to address the issues raised in the report.

Mark Isherwood: I move amendments 1 and 2 in the name of William Graham.

Mark Isherwood: Cynigiaf welliannau 1 a 2 yn enw William Graham.

Problems highlighted in this Children’s Commissioner for Wales annual report have persisted, and have been highlighted for many years.

Mae problemau a amlygwyd yn adroddiad blynyddol Comisiynydd Plant Cymru hwn wedi parhau, ac wedi’u hamlygu ers blynyddoedd lawer.

We will be supporting amendments 3 and 4 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliannau 3 a 4 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

The children’s commissioner questions whether Government initiatives ‘fit together’ to deal with inequalities. He said:

Mae’r comisiynydd yn cwestiynu a yw mentrau’r Llywodraeth yn cydweddu i ddelio ag anghydraddoldebau. Dywedodd:

‘We have gold-plated policies and strategies in Wales, but I’m yet to be convinced that they are strategies which work together and work on the ground to improve the lives of children.’

‘Mae gennym bolisïau a strategaethau o’r radd flaenaf yng Nghymru, ond nid wyf wedi fy narbwyllo eto eu bod yn strategaethau sydd yn gweithio gyda’i gilydd ac yn gweithio’n ymarferol i wella bywydau plant.’

He said that he had heard from children and young people fully supported by families and professionals, but that, all too often, he had heard from children, young people and their families who are struggling to access help and support.

Dywedodd ei fod wedi clywed gan blant a phobl ifanc sy’n cael eu cefnogi’n llawn gan deuluoedd a gweithwyr proffesiynol, ond, yn rhy aml, y mae wedi clywed gan blant, pobl ifanc a’u teuluoedd sy’n cael trafferth i gael mynediad at help a chefnogaeth.

He gave the example of child A:

Rhoddodd enghraifft o blentyn A:

‘she may be living in poverty, have a disability and have poor educational outcomes. Compartmentalising children into the ‘disability’ box or ‘poor’ box isn’t going to help the child in the centre of it all—we need policies and strategies that provide holistic solutions for children and their families.’

efallai ei bod yn byw mewn tlodi, ag anabledd ac â chanlyniadau addysgol gwael. Nid yw rhoi plant i mewn i’r blwch ‘anabledd’ neu’r blwch ‘tlawd’ yn mynd i helpu’r plentyn sydd yng nghanol hyn i gyd—mae arnom angen bolisïau a strategaethau sy’n darparu atebion holistig ar gyfer plant a’u teuluoedd.

4.45 p.m.

It should be noted that new analysis also questions the often repeated claim that infant mortality is directly linked to deprivation. However, for example, the least deprived wards in Wrexham, Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire appear to have higher infant mortality rates than the most deprived wards. I would also ask the children’s commissioner to respond to the call by the north Wales arthritis and musculoskeletal alliance for back care for young people to be a priority, ensuring that schools are properly equipped with the appropriate furniture.

Dylid nodi bod dadansoddi newydd hefyd yn cwestiynu’r honiad a wneir yn aml fod marwolaethau babanod yn gysylltiedig yn uniongyrchol ag amddifadedd. Fodd bynnag, er enghraifft, yn y wardiau lleiaf difreintiedig yn Wrecsam, sir Benfro a sir Gaerfyrddin, mae’n ymddangos bod cyfraddau marwolaethau babanod yn uwch na’r wardiau mwyaf difreintiedig. Byddwn i hefyd yn gofyn i’r comisiynydd plant ymateb i alwad gan gynghrair arthritis a chyhyrysgerbydol gogledd Cymru am flaenoriaethu gofal cefn ar gyfer pobl ifanc, a sicrhau bod gan ysgolion yr offer a’r dodrefn priodol.

Amendment 2 calls on the Welsh Government to address the issues raised in this report. In his report, the commissioner urges the Welsh Government to ensure that the implementation of the child poverty strategy assumes a high importance at a time of severe financial restraint and that significant inroads are made to reduce levels of child poverty. For this, the Welsh Government must pull the levers available to it at a devolved level and address the call by Save the Children for joint action at a UK level and by devolved administrations to reach the child poverty target. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation found that child poverty levels in Wales began to increase from 2004. Wales has the highest levels of child poverty and severe child poverty in the UK. Statistics from the Institute for Fiscal Studies note that child poverty rates in Wales are likely to rise again. Save the Children has told me that these figures must act as a wake-up call for the Welsh Government.

Mae gwelliant 2 yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i fynd i'r afael â’r materion a godwyd yn yr adroddiad hwn. Yn ei adroddiad, mae'r comisiynydd yn annog Llywodraeth Cymru i sicrhau bod gweithredu'r strategaeth tlodi plant yn cael ei weld fel mater o bwys ar adeg o gyfyngiadau ariannol difrifol ac y gwneir cyfraniad o bwys i leihau lefelau tlodi plant. I wneud hyn, mae'n rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru defnyddio’r liferi sydd ar gael iddi ar lefel ddatganoledig ac ymdrin â’r alwad gan Achub y Plant am weithredu ar y cyd ar lefel y DU a gweinyddiaethau datganoledig i gyrraedd y targed tlodi plant. Canfu’r Sefydliad Joseph Rowntree bod lefelau tlodi plant yng Nghymru wedi dechrau cynyddu o 2004 ymlaen. Mae gan Gymru’r lefelau uchaf o dlodi plant a thlodi plant difrifol yn y DU. Mae ystadegau gan y Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid yn nodi bod cyfraddau tlodi plant yng Nghymru yn debygol o godi eto. Mae Achub y Plant wedi dweud wrthyf fod rhaid i’r ffigurau hyn weithredu fel rhybudd i Lywodraeth Cymru.

Another persistent issue is the state of school toilets. In the report, the children’s commissioner states

Mater parhaus arall yw cyflwr toiledau ysgol. Yn yr adroddiad, dywed y comisiynydd plant

‘I continue to hear from school children about their poor experiences of school toilet provision.’

‘rwy’n dal i glywed gan blant ysgol am eu profiadau gwael o ran y ddarparieth toiledau ysgol.’

Research by the children’s commissioner found that only a third of respondents feel that their school toilets are always clean, more than half reported that toilet doors do not close and lock, and almost half did not even have seats on their toilets.

Canfu ymchwil gan y comisiynydd mai dim ond traean o ymatebwyr oedd yn teimlo bod eu toiledau ysgol yn lân bob amser, dywedodd mwy na hanner nad yw drysau’r toiledau yn cau â chlo, ac nid oedd gan bron hanner ohonynt sedd ar eu toiledau, hyd yn oed.

The commissioner states that the provision of advocacy for looked-after children, care leavers and children in need is inconsistent across Wales, adding that advocacy is an essential element of safeguarding, enabling children and young people to speak up when they perceive that something is wrong. If this is to happen for all children and young people in care, we would expect them all to be actively encouraged to have an advocate with whom they can build up a trusting relationship. As the all-party group on looked-after children said in the last Assembly, we want children and young people to access independent support, not influenced or controlled by others.

Dywed y comisiynydd fod y ddarpariaeth eiriolaeth ar gyfer plant sy'n derbyn gofal, y rhai sy'n gadael gofal a phlant mewn angen yn anghyson ar draws Cymru, gan ychwanegu bod eiriolaeth yn elfen hanfodol o ddiogelu, gan alluogi plant a phobl ifanc i siarad pan welant fod rhywbeth o’i le. Os yw hyn yn digwydd ar gyfer yr holl blant a phobl ifanc sydd mewn gofal, byddem yn disgwyl iddynt nhw i gyd gael eu hannog i gael eiriolwr y gallant adeiladu perthynas ymddiriedol â nhw. Fel y dywedodd y grŵp hollbleidiol ar blant sy'n derbyn gofal yn y Cynulliad diwethaf, yr ydym am i blant a phobl ifanc gael mynediad at gymorth annibynnol, sydd ddim yn cael ei ddylanwadu neu ei reoli gan eraill.

The commissioner has stated that he has serious concerns that accountability lines are blurred and that promises are not kept. We need to ensure that legislation such as the Children and Families (Wales) Measure 2010, the Carers Strategies (Wales) Measure 2010, and the Mental Health (Wales) Measure 2010, and initiatives such as Families First contribute to the strategic approach that we need to address the serious problems facing children. As the commissioner states, the Welsh Government narrative is not as clear as it should be.

Mae’r comisiynydd wedi datgan bod ganddo bryderon difrifol bod y llinellau atebolrwydd yn aneglur ac na chedwir addewidion. Mae angen inni sicrhau bod deddfwriaeth megis y Mesur Plant a Theuluoedd (Cymru) 2010, y Mesur Strategaethau Gofalwyr (Cymru) 2010, a Mesur Iechyd Meddwl (Cymru) 2010, a mentrau megis Teuluoedd yn Gyntaf yn cyfrannu at y dull gweithredu strategol sydd ei angen arnom i ymdrin â’r problemau difrifol sy'n wynebu plant. Fel y noda’r comisiynydd, nid yw naratif y Llywodraeth mor glir ag y dylai fod.

Gwelliant 3 Jocelyn Davies

Amendment 3 Jocelyn Davies

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add new point at end of motion:

Yn gresynu nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu darparu ymateb i’r adroddiad cyn 31 Mawrth.

Regrets that the Welsh Government is unable to provide a response to the report earlier than 31 March.

Gwelliant 4 Jocelyn Davies

Amendment 4 Jocelyn Davies

Ychwanegu pwynt newydd ar ddiwedd y cynnig:

Add new point at end of motion:

Yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i osod amserlenni clir ar gyfer cyflawni pwyntiau gweithredu yn ei hymateb i’r Adroddiad.

Calls on the Welsh Government to set out clear timescales to deliver action points, in its response to the Report.

Lindsay Whittle: I move amendments 3 and 4 in the name of Jocelyn Davies.

Lindsay Whittle: Cynigiaf welliannau 3 a 4 yn enw Jocelyn Davies.

We shall be supporting amendments 1 and 2 in the name of William Graham. I am disappointed that the Welsh Government is unable to provide a response to this very worthy report earlier than 31 March 2012. I do not think that that is acceptable. We need to deliver action points in our response to the report far more quickly. We should legislate to enhance the statutory powers of the children’s commissioner and his independence by moving the funding to non-departmental expenditure.

Byddwn yn cefnogi gwelliannau 1 a 2 yn enw William Graham. Yr wyf yn siomedig nad yw Llywodraeth Cymru yn gallu ymateb i’r adroddiad teilwng iawn hwn yn gynharach na 31 Mawrth 2012. Nid wyf yn credu bod hynny'n dderbyniol. Mae angen inni gyflawni pwyntiau gweithredu yn ein hymateb i'r adroddiad yn gyflymach o lawer. Dylem ddeddfu i wella pwerau statudol y comisiynydd plant a’i annibyniaeth drwy symud yr arian i wariant anadrannol.

One of the key issues in this report is the noble sentiment of eradicating child poverty. There is no-one in this room who would disagree with that. However, eradicating child poverty should be at the heart of all decision making. The Assembly has to develop severe poverty milestones in the overall strategic thinking of just about everything that we do. Let us be honest, we are not quite there yet, are we? I agree entirely with the children’s commissioner when he condemns complex and expensive means testing for benefits. It is totally abhorrent and takes us back to the 1920s and 1930s. Our grandparents will be turning in their graves.

Un o'r materion allweddol yn yr adroddiad hwn yw’r nod clodwiw o ddileu tlodi plant. Nid oes neb yn yr ystafell hon a fyddai'n anghytuno â hynny. Fodd bynnag, dylai dileu tlodi plant fod wrth wraidd y broses o wneud penderfyniadau. Mae’n rhaid i’r Cynulliad ddatblygu cerrig milltir tlodi difrifol ym meddwl strategol cyffredinol bron popeth a wnawn. Gadewch inni fod yn onest, nid ydym yno eto, nac ydym? Cytunaf yn llwyr â’r comisiynydd plant pan mae’n condemnio prawf moddion cymhleth a drud ar gyfer budd-daliadau. Mae'n gwbl wrthun ac yn mynd â ni yn ôl at y 1920au a'r 1930au. Bydd ein teidiau a neiniau yn troi yn eu beddau.

As for the London Government’s decision to end universal child benefit, I say: ‘Hang your heads in shame’. We have an expression in Wales of chwarae teg—fair play. The London Government is going against the spirit of fair play of the Welsh people, and, indeed, the Welsh Government.

O ran penderfyniad Llywodraeth Llundain i orffen budd-dal plant cyffredinol, dywedaf: ‘Dylai fod cywilydd arnoch chi'. Mae gennym ddywediad yng Nghymru, ‘chwarae teg’. Mae Llywodraeth Llundain yn mynd yn groes i ysbryd chwarae teg pobl Cymru, ac, yn wir, Llywodraeth Cymru.

I would not get too comfortable on the Government benches here either, because the commissioner makes the point, on page 49 of the report, that action on reducing child poverty is simply not moving quickly enough. I am afraid that that is a criticism that this Labour Government has to take on the chin. 

Ni fyddwn yn mynd yn rhy gyfforddus ar feinciau’r Llywodraeth yma ychwaith, oherwydd bod y comisiynydd yn gwneud y pwynt, ar dudalen 49 yr adroddiad, nad yw gweithredu ar leihau tlodi plant yn symud yn ddigon cyflym. Mae arnaf ofn bod hynny’n feirniadaeth y mae’n rhaid i’r Llywodraeth Lafur hon ei derbyn yn ddi-gŵyn.

I also notice that the commissioner raises the issue of children being unable to access specialist wheelchairs. That cannot be right in a modern Wales, and I assure you that further questions will follow on this.

Sylwaf hefyd bod y comisiynydd yn codi’r mater o blant yn methu â chael mynediad at gadeiriau olwyn arbenigol. Ni all hynny fod yn iawn yng Nghymru fodern, a gallaf eich sicrhau y bydd cwestiynau pellach yn dilyn ar hyn.

We heard recently, and again today, from the Deputy Minister about the issue of child trafficking, abuse and exploitation in Wales. I believe in commending people, and this issue has been ably highlighted by Joyce Watson and her cross-party group on human trafficking. I am sorry that I have not been able to get to one of its meetings, because there have been so many things on, but it is a matter of serious public concern. I assure Joyce Watson that my party will fully support any action to bring that disgraceful practice to an absolute and immediate end. So, well done, Joyce Watson.

Clywsom yn ddiweddar, ac eto heddiw, gan y Dirprwy Weinidog ar y mater o fasnachu, cam-drin a cham-fanteisio ar blant yng Nghymru. Credaf mewn canmol pobl, a thynnwyd sylw at y mater hwn yn fedrus gan Joyce Watson a’i grŵp trawsbleidiol ar fasnachu mewn pobl. Mae'n ddrwg gennyf nad wyf wedi gallu mynd i un o'i gyfarfodydd, oherwydd mae cymaint o bethau’n mynd ymlaen, ond mae'n fater o bryder difrifol i'r cyhoedd. Gallaf sicrhau Joyce Watson y bydd fy mhlaid yn cefnogi unrhyw gamau i ddod â’r arfer gwarthus hwn i ben ar unwaith. Felly, da iawn, Joyce Watson.

Finally, I reiterate my party’s support for the Assembly’s Children and Young People Committee. More importantly, my party wants to ensure that the children’s commissioner is responsible to the National Assembly for Wales, rather than to the Welsh Government. We all have a duty to protect the rights of our nation’s children.

Yn olaf, ategaf gefnogaeth fy mhlaid ar gyfer Pwyllgor Plant a Phobl Ifanc y Cynulliad. Yn bwysicach, mae fy mhlaid eisiau sicrhau bod y comisiynydd plant yn gyfrifol i Gynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru, yn hytrach nag i Lywodraeth Cymru. Mae gan bob un ohonom ddyletswydd i ddiogelu hawliau plant ein cenedl.

Lynne Neagle: A strong theme of celebration runs through the tenth annual report of the Children’s Commissioner for Wales, but while I recognise the opportunity for reflection that this anniversary provides, my overwhelming emotion when reading the report was not one of joy, but rather of frustration and a sense of déjà vu.

Lynne Neagle: Mae thema gref o ddathlu yn rhedeg drwy degfed adroddiad blynyddol Comisiynydd Plant Cymru, ond er y cydnabyddaf y cyfle i fyfyrio y mae’r pen-blwydd hwn yn ei roi, nid llawenydd oedd yr emosiwn cryfaf a deimlais wrth ddarllen yr adroddiad, ond yn hytrach rhwystredigaeth ac ymdeimlad o déjà vu.

Creating the post of children’s commissioner 10 years ago was a laudable demonstration of intent, but it was never intended to be an achievement or end in itself. It is frustrating to see the same concerns cropping up year after year in these reports—that the strategies and policies are in place but are not being backed up where it matters, namely in our schools, hospitals and on the ground in Wales. We have to do more to address the fundamental gap between the policy on a desk in Cathays park and its implementation on the ground in Wales.

Roedd creu swydd y comisiynydd plant 10 mlynedd yn ôl oedd yn ganmoladwy yn ei fwriad, ond nid bod yn gyflawniad neu’n nod ynddo’i hun oedd y bwriad. Mae'n rhwystredig gweld yr un pryderon yn codi'u pennau flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn yn yr adroddiadau hyn—mae’r strategaethau a'r polisïau yn eu lle ond nid ydynt yn cael cefnogaeth lle mae'n cyfrif, sef yn ein hysgolion, ysbytai ac ar lawr gwlad yng Nghymru. Rhaid inni wneud mwy i fynd i'r afael â’r bwlch sylfaenol rhwng y polisi ar ddesg ym Mharc Cathays a’i weithrediad ar lawr gwlad yng Nghymru.

For example, take the continuing healthcare for children agenda and the long overdue move towards an entitlement approach to children’s health needs, especially for those who are disabled or have long-term illnesses. I share the commissioner’s frustration that, years after this was first raised as an issue, we are still waiting for guidance from the Government. As he put it bluntly to me at a Children and Young People Committee meeting recently,

Er enghraifft, ystyriwch yr agenda gofal iechyd parhaus ar gyfer plant a'r symud, y bu disgwyl hir amdano, tuag at ddull yn seiliedig ar hawl ar gyfer anghenion iechyd plant, yn enwedig ar gyfer y rheini sy'n anabl neu sydd â salwch hirdymor. Rhannaf rwystredigaeth y comisiynydd, blynyddoedd ar ôl y codwyd hyn yn gyntaf fel problem, ein bod yn dal i aros am ganllawiau gan y Llywodraeth. Fel y dywedodd wrthyf yn blwmp ac yn blaen mewn cyfarfod y Pwyllgor Plant a Phobl Ifanc yn ddiweddar,

‘I do not understand why the guidance has been as delayed as it is. I just do not get it.’

‘Nid wyf yn deall pam y bu cymaint o oedi gyda’r canllawiau. Yn syml, nid wyf yn ei ddeall.’

We have undoubtedly made real progress on child poverty recently, such as our new child poverty strategy, the integrated family support service that is being rolled out and the Children and Families (Wales) Measure 2010. I remain proud of the number of children lifted out of poverty under Labour in the first half of the last decade, and of my party’s commitment to doubling the Flying Start provision in Wales. However, we need to ensure that we maintain an unrelenting focus on tackling child poverty, and I hope that the Deputy Minister will be able to assure us that the awaited child poverty action plan to accompany the strategy will be published shortly.

Rydym yn sicr wedi gwneud cynnydd gwirioneddol ar dlodi plant yn ddiweddar, megis ein strategaeth tlodi plant newydd, y gwasanaeth integredig cymorth i deuluoedd sy’n cael ei gyflwyno a’r Mesur Plant a Theuluoedd (Cymru) 2010. Yr wyf yn falch o'r nifer o blant y tynnwyd allan o dlodi o dan Lafur yn ystod hanner cyntaf y ddegawd ddiwethaf, ac o ymrwymiad fy mhlaid i ddyblu’r ddarpariaeth Dechrau'n Deg yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, mae angen inni sicrhau ein bod yn cynnal ffocws didostur ar fynd i'r afael â thlodi plant, a gobeithiaf y bydd y Dirprwy Weinidog yn gallu rhoi sicrwydd inni y cyhoeddir y cynllun gweithredu tlodi plant disgwyliedig i gyd-fynd â’r strategaeth cyn bo hir.

In some ways, it is even more frustrating when progress is slow in such basic areas as ensuring that our schoolchildren have decent toilets. It is six years since ‘Lifting the Lid’ was published, and it is a disgrace that some LEAs have not done more to address this situation in the interim. I look forward to the Minister for Education and Skills bringing forward robust guidance in this area shortly, and I hope that it will also be accompanied by stringent measures to monitor its implementation on the ground. 

Mewn rhai ffyrdd, mae hyd yn oed yn fwy rhwystredig pan fydd cynnydd yn araf mewn meysydd sylfaenol fel sicrhau bod gan ein plant ysgol doiledau derbyniol. Mae chwe blynedd ers cyhoeddi 'Codi'r Clawr', ac mae'n warth nad yw rhai AALlau wedi gwneud mwy i fynd i'r afael â’r sefyllfa hon yn y cyfamser. Edrychaf ymlaen at y Gweinidog Addysg a Sgiliau yn cyflwyno canllawiau cadarn yn y maes hwn cyn bo hir, a gobeithiaf y bydd hefyd yn cael ei ategu gan fesurau llym i fonitro ei weithrediad ar lawr gwlad.

I respect the children’s commissioner and I believe that he is a man who has his finger on the pulse when it comes to the issues affecting children in Wales. However, if he does not have the tools that he needs to do his job and if he continues to be ignored when he speaks up for the rights and needs of children, it is time for us to look again at his powers. I know that discussions are already under way on ways in which we can strengthen the powers of the commissioner and more firmly entrench his independence from Government—moves that I fully welcome. In practical terms, that could mean giving him powers of review similar to those of the Commissioner for Older People in Wales, or having a children’s commissioner appointed by the National Assembly rather than the Government. We simply have to find a way to ensure that everyone listens when the commissioner speaks.

Yr wyf yn parchu’r comisiynydd plant, a chredaf ei fod yn ddyn sydd yn gyfarwydd iawn gyda materion sy'n effeithio ar blant yng Nghymru. Fodd bynnag, os nad oes ganddo’r offer sydd ei angen i wneud ei swydd, ac os yw'n parhau i gael ei anwybyddu pan mae’n siarad dros hawliau ac anghenion plant, mae'n bryd inni edrych unwaith eto ar ei bwerau. Gwn fod trafodaethau eisoes ar droed ar ffyrdd y gallwn gryfhau pwerau'r comisiynydd a chadarnhau, hyd yn oed yn fwy, ei annibyniaeth o Lywodraeth—croesawaf yr agweddau hynny’n llwyr. Mewn termau ymarferol, gallai hynny olygu rhoi iddo bwerau adolygiad tebyg i rai’r Comisiynydd Pobl Hŷn yng Nghymru, neu gael comisiynydd plant a benodwyd gan y Cynulliad Cenedlaethol yn hytrach na'r Llywodraeth. Rhaid i ni ddod o hyd i ffordd o sicrhau bod pawb yn gwrando pan fydd y comisiynydd yn siarad.

In preparing for this debate, I looked back at the speech that I delivered on this matter in Plenary in 2003—nearly eight years ago to the day. I was saddened to realise that, give or take a sentence or two, I could have repeated it here to you this afternoon. Most of the children of that generation, the class of 2003, will have grown up and moved on. It is too late to improve their life chances and ensure that they get the best start in life. However, we have the opportunity to change things for the next generation—the children of today and tomorrow. We must grasp that opportunity with both hands.

Wrth baratoi ar gyfer y ddadl hon, edrychais yn ôl ar yr araith a roddais ar y mater hwn yn y Cyfarfod Llawn yn 2003—bron i wyth mlynedd yn ôl i'r diwrnod. Roeddwn yn drist i sylweddoli, ac eithrio brawddeg neu ddwy, y gallwn i fod wedi’i ailadrodd yma i chi’r prynhawn yma. Byddai’r rhan fwyaf o blant y genhedlaeth honno, dosbarth  2003, wedi tyfu a symud ymlaen. Mae'n rhy hwyr i wella eu cyfleoedd bywyd a sicrhau eu bod yn cael y dechrau gorau mewn bywyd. Fodd bynnag, mae gennym gyfle i newid pethau ar gyfer y genhedlaeth nesaf—plant heddiw ac yfory. Rhaid inni ddal ar y cyfle hwnnw.

Aled Roberts: Unlike Lynne Neagle, this is the first time that I have spoken on this matter, but I think that I speak for all members of the Children and Young People Committee in saying that we feel frustrated that a lot of the comments made here today could have been made every time the commissioner’s report has been debated. However, it is important that we give credit where credit is due. The Assembly is at the forefront of receiving reports from the commissioner, and he is to be congratulated on his hard work and dedication in bringing these matters before the Assembly. Lynne is right: we are not doing our jobs in the Assembly if, year after year, we are debating the same issues.

Aled Roberts: Yn wahanol i Lynne Neagle, dyma’r tro cyntaf imi siarad ar y mater hwn, ond credaf fy mod yn siarad dros bob aelod o’r Pwyllgor Plant a Phobl Ifanc yn dweud ein bod yn teimlo’n rhwystredig y gallai fod nifer o'r sylwadau a wnaed yma heddiw wedi cael eu gwneud bob tro y trafodwyd adroddiad y comisiynydd. Fodd bynnag, mae'n bwysig inni roi clod lle mae clod yn ddyledus. Mae’r Cynulliad ar flaen y gad yn derbyn adroddiadau gan y comisiynydd, ac mae i'w longyfarch ar ei waith caled a’i ymroddiad wrth gyflwyno'r materion hyn gerbron y Cynulliad. Mae Lynne yn iawn: nid ydym yn gwneud ein swyddi yn y Cynulliad os, flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, yr ydym yn trafod yr un materion.

There is already mention of the deteriorating position for children and young people in Wales regarding some issues. ‘Lifting the Lid’ was first published in 2004 and, as a committee, we fail to understand how local authorities, and schools in particular, could have failed to respond, particularly following the E. coli outbreak, with what appeared to be a fairly simple response. In March of this year, the Assembly Government made moneys available to local education authorities. Given the tight timescale for spending those moneys, there were suggestions that local authorities should prioritise expenditure on school toilets. Like Lynne, it was with regret that I read the comments in the review with regard to progress. Also, it was saddening for the committee to hear the commissioner say that he is disappointed by the actions taken in this field.

Mae sôn eisoes am sefyllfa sy'n dirywio ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc yng Nghymru mewn rhai meysydd. Cyhoeddwyd 'Codi'r Clawr' yn gyntaf yn 2004 ac, fel pwyllgor, rydym yn methu â deall sut y mae awdurdodau lleol, ac ysgolion yn benodol, wedi methu ag ymateb, yn enwedig yn dilyn yr achosion o E.coli, gyda'r hyn sy'n ymddangos yn ymateb weddol syml. Ym mis Mawrth eleni, fe wnaeth Llywodraeth y Cynulliad arian ar gael i awdurdodau addysg lleol. O ystyried yr amserlen dynn ar gyfer gwariant yr arian hwnnw, cafwyd awgrymiadau y dylai awdurdodau lleol flaenoriaethu gwariant ar doiledau ysgol. Fel Lynne, yr oeddwn yn gresynu pan ddarllenais y sylwadau yn yr adolygiad ynghylch cynnydd. Hefyd, roedd yn drist i’r pwyllgor glywed y comisiynydd yn dweud ei fod wedi’i siomi gan y camau a gymerwyd yn y maes hwn.

I want to mention three other areas in which we need to ensure that actions are taken by the time that we come to debate these issues next year. The first is child and adolescent mental health services. I will, again, give credit where credit is due—there is a new in-patient facility in north Wales, which is welcomed, and I accept that the then Minister, in February, made an announcement regarding an additional £1.678 million for CAMHS—but it has been quite difficult and the feeling in the Children and Young People Committee is that the expenditure of those moneys has not been transparent. It is difficult for us to see where those additional moneys are being spent, whether the way in which they have been spent is sustainable, and whether we will get to the situation again where individual projects are set up and then, 12 months down the line, pulled due to the shortage of available moneys.

Hoffwn sôn am dri maes arall lle mae angen inni sicrhau y cymerir camau erbyn inni ddod i drafod y materion hyn y flwyddyn nesaf. Y cyntaf yw gwasanaethau iechyd meddwl plant a'r glasoed. Unwaith eto, rhoddaf glod lle y mae'n ddyledus—ceir cyfleuster cleifion mewnol newydd yng ngogledd Cymru, sy’n cael ei groesawu, a derbyniaf y gwnaeth y Gweinidog ar y pryd, ym mis Chwefror, gyhoeddiad ynghylch £1.678 miliwn yn ychwanegol ar gyfer CAMHS—ond mae wedi bod yn eithaf anodd a’r teimlad yn y Pwyllgor Plant a Phobl Ifanc yw nad yw gwariant yr arian hwnnw wedi bod yn dryloyw. Mae'n anodd i ni weld lle y caiff yr arian ychwanegol hwnnw ei wario, a yw’r ffordd y gwariwyd yn gynaliadwy, ac a fyddwn mewn sefyllfa eto lle y sefydlir prosiectau unigol ac yna, 12 mis yn ddiweddarach, cânt eu dileu oherwydd y diffyg arian.

I will also flag up pages 58 and 59, which mention the age assessments carried out by local authorities for asylum seeking children. The commissioner makes it clear that he feels that the Welsh Government and the UK Borders Agency need to take much stronger action over the course of the next few months to ensure that the postcode lottery for local authorities is addressed.

Byddaf hefyd yn tynnu sylw at dudalennau 58 a 59, sy'n sôn am yr asesiadau oedran a gynhaliwyd gan awdurdodau lleol ar gyfer plant ceiswyr lloches. Mae'r comisiynydd yn ei wneud yn glir ei fod yn teimlo bod angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ac Asiantaeth Ffiniau'r DU gymryd camau llawer cryfach yn ystod y misoedd nesaf i sicrhau bod y loteri cod post ar gyfer awdurdodau lleol yn cael sylw.

5.00 p.m.

Finally, I support the comments made on the availability of wheelchairs for youngsters. This morning, by chance, I received a response from the Betsi Cadwaladr University Local Health Board on the provision of services in north Wales and, again, despite increased resources being made available, we still have a situation in which Betsi Cadwaladr LHB has 62 youngsters who have waited more than 14 weeks for wheelchairs. One poor youngster has waited 17 months for provision. That is clearly not acceptable. As Lynne said, it is all very well having strategies and plans in place, but if front-line service delivery organisations are not delivering what we expect them to deliver and what the commissioner is challenging them to deliver, we need to take action as an Assembly. It is clear from this report that a document is no guarantee of outcomes, and neither is it a substitute for action. It is about time that we asked why this is the state of play year after year. We need to acknowledge the progress that has been made, but say that there are still chapters of this report that give us cause for concern with regard to implementation.

Yn olaf, yr wyf yn cefnogi’r sylwadau a wnaed ar argaeledd cadeiriau olwyn i bobl ifanc. Y bore yma, trwy hap a damwain, derbyniais ymateb gan Fwrdd Iechyd Lleol Prifysgol Betsi Cadwaladr am ddarpariaeth gwasanaethau yn y gogledd ac, unwaith eto, er bod mwy o adnoddau ar gael, mae gennym sefyllfa lle mae gan fwrdd iechyd lleol Betsi Cadwaladr 62 o bobl ifanc sydd wedi aros mwy na 14 wythnos am gadeiriau olwyn. Mae un person ifanc druan wedi aros 17 mis am ddarpariaeth. Yn amlwg, nid yw hynny’n dderbyniol. Fel y dywedodd Lynne, mae’n ddigon hawdd cael strategaethau a chynlluniau yn eu lle, ond os nad yw sefydliadau darparu gwasanaethau rheng flaen yn cyflawni’r hyn yr ydym yn ddisgwyl iddynt ddarparu a’r hyn mae’r comisiynydd yn eu herio i’w gyflawni, mae angen inni gymryd camau fel Cynulliad. Mae’n amlwg o’r adroddiad hwn nad yw dogfen yn gwarantu canlyniadau, ac nid yw ychwaith yn cymryd lle gweithredu. Mae’n hen bryd inni ofyn pam mai fel hyn mae hi flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn. Mae angen inni gydnabod y cynnydd a wnaed, ond dweud bod yna benodau o’r adroddiad hwn sy’n peri pryder inni o ran gweithredu.

Julie Morgan: First, it is important to acknowledge the work of the two children’s commissioners that we have had over the last 10 years, Peter Clarke and Keith Towler. There is no doubt that establishing the office of the children’s commissioner was the right thing to do and that the post is gaining in status. More and more children, young people and adults know and are aware of the role of the children’s commissioner.

Julie Morgan: Yn gyntaf, mae’n bwysig cydnabod gwaith y ddau gomisiynydd plant a gawsom yn ystod y 10 mlynedd diwethaf, Peter Clarke a Keith Towler. Nid oes amheuaeth ei fod yn iawn i sefydlu swydd y comisiynydd plant a bod y swydd yn ennill statws. Mae mwy a mwy o blant, pobl ifanc ac oedolion yn gwybod am ac yn ymwybodol o rôl y comisiynydd plant.

I want to refer briefly to three aspects of the report. The first aspect is unaccompanied asylum-seeking children, whom Aled Roberts mentioned, and the problems related to age assessment. This matter is not devolved, but it has huge implications for local authorities, particularly in relation to accommodation and the possible placing of children in adult accommodation, where they could be at risk. Keith Towler calls on the Welsh Government to give clear guidance to social workers in this regard, and I echo his call. The United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child says that the child must always be given the benefit of the doubt. These children and young people are living in Wales, and we must address that issue.

Yr wyf am gyfeirio’n fyr at dair agwedd ar yr adroddiad. Yr agwedd gyntaf yw plant ar ben eu hunain sy’n ceisio lloches, y soniodd Aled Roberts amdanynt, a’r problemau o ran asesu oedran. Nid yw’r mater hwn wedi’i ddatganoli, ond mae ganddo oblygiadau enfawr i awdurdodau lleol, yn enwedig mewn perthynas â llety a’r posibilrwydd o osod plant mewn llety i oedolion, lle gallent fod mewn perygl. Mae Keith Towler yn galw ar Lywodraeth Cymru i roi canllawiau clir i weithwyr cymdeithasol yn hyn o beth, ac ategaf hynny. Dywed Pwyllgor y Cenhedloedd Unedig ar Hawliau’r Plentyn bod yn rhaid rhoi mantais yr amheuaeth bob amser i blentyn. Mae’r plant a’r bobl ifanc hyn yn byw yng Nghymru, a rhaid inni fynd i’r afael â’r mater hwnnw.

I am also pleased that the children’s commissioner has addressed child health issues. In particular, I was pleased that he mentioned sunbeds. I had the good fortune to steer through, in another place, the Sunbeds (Regulation) Acts 2010, which received Royal Assent on the last afternoon of the last day of the last Labour Government. I congratulate the National Assembly for Wales on strengthening that Act by bringing in the regulations that came into force yesterday, which will ensure that young children are not exposed to harmful ultraviolet rays by making coin-box-operated, unsupervised salons a thing of the past. Those regulations, which came into force yesterday, will help to protect children’s health. It is a matter of great regret that similar regulations and a similar strengthening of the Act have not been brought in by the coalition Government in Westminster. It is important to congratulate the Welsh Government on what it has done to protect children, and I am glad that Keith Towler has drawn attention to this.

Da gennyf hefyd fod y comisiynydd plant wedi mynd i’r afael â materion iechyd plant. Yn benodol, yr oedd yn dda gennyf ei fod wedi crybwyll gwelyau haul. Cefais y fraint o lywio, mewn lle arall, y Deddfau (Rheoleiddio) Gwelyau Haul 2010, a gafodd Gydsyniad Brenhinol ar brynhawn olaf diwrnod olaf y Llywodraeth Lafur ddiwethaf. Yr wyf yn llongyfarch Cynulliad Cenedlaethol Cymru am gryfhau’r Ddeddf honno drwy gyflwyno’r rheoliadau a ddaeth i rym ddoe, a fydd yn sicrhau nad yw plant ifanc yn cael eu hamlygu i belydrau uwchfioled niweidiol drwy wneud salonau heb oruchwyliaeth wedi eu gweithredu â bocs arian parod yn rhywbeth o’r oes o’r blaen. Bydd y rheoliadau hynny, a ddaeth i rym ddoe, yn helpu i ddiogelu iechyd plant. Mae’n destun gofid mawr nad yw rheoliadau tebyg a chryfhau tebyg o’r Ddeddf wedi cael eu cyflwyno gan y Llywodraeth glymblaid yn San Steffan. Mae’n bwysig llongyfarch Llywodraeth Cymru am yr hyn a wnaeth i ddiogelu plant, ac mae’n dda gennyf fod Keith Towler wedi tynnu sylw at hyn.

Finally, I congratulate the children’s commissioner on his strong support for the removal of the defence of reasonable chastisement, which we debated last week. Both of the children’s commissioners for Wales and, indeed, all the children’s commissioners in the United Kingdom have supported that position.

Yn olaf, llongyfarchaf y comisiynydd plant am ei gefnogaeth gref i waredu yr amddiffyniad cosb resymol, a drafodwyd gennym yr wythnos diwethaf. Mae’r ddau gomisiynydd plant dros Gymru ac, yn wir, holl gomisiynwyr plant y Deyrnas Unedig wedi cefnogi’r safbwynt hwnnw.

Mohammad Asghar: First, I welcome the publication of this report and extend my thanks to Keith Towler and his team for the work that they have undertaken over the last 12 months. On this side of the Chamber, we are hugely supportive of the commissioner’s work and I am grateful to have the opportunity to contribute to this important debate today.

Mohammad Asghar: Yn gyntaf, yr wyf yn croesawu cyhoeddi’r adroddiad hwn ac estynnaf fy niolch at Keith Towler a’i dîm am y gwaith a wnaethant yn y 12 mis diwethaf. Ar yr ochr hon i’r Siambr, yr ydym yn hynod o gefnogol i waith y comisiynydd ac yr wyf yn ddiolchgar i gael y cyfle i gyfrannu at y ddadl bwysig hon heddiw.

Chiefly, I am deeply concerned by the ‘implementation gap’ between policy and delivery that Mr Towler highlights in his report. The commissioner’s assertion that the Welsh Government suffers from a

Yn bennaf, yr wyf yn bryderus iawn am y ‘bwlch gweithredu’ rhwng polisi a darpariaeth y mae Mr Towler yn tynnu sylw ato yn ei adroddiad. Dylai haeriad y comisiynydd bod Llywodraeth Cymru yn dioddef o fethiant

‘failure to consistently implement national law and policy’

‘i weithredu cyfreithiau a pholisïau cenedlaethol yn gyson’

should act as a stark wake-up call to the Welsh Government. While there are a number of strategies in place aimed at improving the lives of children across Wales, they mean nothing if they do not deliver clear improvements. Sadly, it would appear that too many strategies in Wales are not delivering real improvements for our children. I am particularly concerned that the commissioner does not feel that the strategies in place work together effectively.

weithredu fel ysgytwad llwyr i Lywodraeth Cymru. Er bod nifer o strategaethau ar waith gyda’r nod o wella bywydau plant ledled Cymru, nid ydynt yn golygu dim os nad ydynt yn arwain at welliannau clir. Yn anffodus, ymddengys bod gormod o strategaethau yng Nghymru sydd ddim yn arwain at welliannau go iawn i’n plant. Yr wyf yn arbennig o bryderus nad yw’r comisiynydd yn teimlo bod y strategaethau sydd ar waith yn cydweithio yn effeithiol.

On the implementation of law and policy, we must see much more precise timescales and clear lines of responsibility. Legislative provisions in the Children and Families (Wales) Measure 2010, the Carers (Wales) Measure 2009, and the Mental Health (Wales) Measure 2010 must be implemented effectively. Unfortunately, concerns over the gap between policy intent and practice are not new in Wales. Last year, for example, it was flagged up with regard to school toilets. I am sure Members will share my disappointment that, once again, Mr Towler has reported negatively on such facilities. With regard to school toilets, I said last year that our children deserve better, yet things have not improved. Offering children the basic dignity and respect afforded by the provision of a properly functioning toilet should be straightforward. While this is a local authority issue, the Welsh Government has a key role to play. In 2003, a clear objective was set for all school buildings—including their toilets—to be in good physical shape and maintained properly by 2010, yet this has not been achieved.

O ran gweithredu cyfreithiau a pholisi, mae’n rhaid i ni weld amserlenni llawer mwy manwl a chyfrifoldeb clir wedi ei bennu. Mae’n rhaid gweithredu darpariaethau deddfwriaethol Mesur Plant a Theuluoedd (Cymru) 2010, Mesur Strategaethau ar gyfer Gofalwyr (Cymru) 2010 a Mesur Iechyd Meddwl (Cymru) 2010 yn effeithiol. Yn anffodus, nid yw’r pryderon am y bwlch rhwng bwriad ac arfer polisi yn newydd yng Nghymru. Y llynedd, er enghraifft, tynnwyd sylw at doiledau ysgol. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd Aelodau yn rhannu fy siom bod Mr Towler, drachefn, wedi sôn yn negyddol am gyfleusterau o’r fath. O ran toiledau ysgol, dywedais y llynedd fod ein plant yn haeddu gwell, ond eto nid yw pethau wedi gwella. Dylai cynnig urddas a pharch sylfaenol i blant a ddaw yn sgîl toiledau sy’n gweithio’n iawn fod yn syml. Er mai i’r awdurdodau lleol yw hyn, mae gan Lywodraeth Cymru rôl allweddol i’w chwarae. Yn 2003, gosodwyd amcan clir ar gyfer pob adeilad ysgol—gan gynnwys eu toiledau—i fod mewn cyflwr ffisegol da ac wedi eu cynnal yn iawn erbyn 2010, ond eto ni chafodd hyn ei gyflawni.

The final publication of the best practice guidance for schools must deliver results. In recent years, the commissioner described child poverty as the single most important issue facing our nation. Year after year, his reports emphasise concerns about how effectively the Welsh Government is dealing with child poverty and, sadly, that is the case again this year. Quite rightly, the commissioner is concerned at the delay in the production of the child poverty strategy delivery plan. The strategy itself was published nearly nine months ago and it reaffirms the Welsh Government’s commitment to eradicate child poverty by 2020. Presently, 32 per cent of children in Wales live in poverty, so it is staggering that we have seen such a delay in the publication of the plan. A delivery plan must outline how child poverty will be eradicated and how we can deal with the root causes of child poverty across Wales.

Rhaid i’r canllawiau arfer gorau terfynol ar gyfer ysgolion sicrhau canlyniadau. Yn y blynyddoedd diwethaf, disgrifiodd y comisiynydd dlodi plant fel y mater pwysicaf sy’n wynebu ein cenedl. Flwyddyn ar ôl blwyddyn, mae ei adroddiadau yn pwysleisio pryderon am ba mor effeithiol mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn delio â thlodi plant ac, yn anffodus, dyna’r stori eto eleni. Yn gwbl briodol, mae’r comisiynydd yn pryderu am yr oedi wrth lunio cynllun cyflawni’r strategaeth tlodi plant. Cyhoeddwyd y strategaeth ei hun bron i naw mis yn ôl, ac mae’n ailddatgan ymrwymiad Llywodraeth Cymru i ddileu tlodi plant erbyn 2020. Ar hyn o bryd, mae 32 y cant o blant yng Nghymru yn byw mewn tlodi, felly mae’n anhygoel ein bod wedi gweld oedi o’r fath yn cyhoeddi’r cynllun. Rhaid i gynllun cyflawni amlinellu sut y caiff tlodi plant ei ddileu a sut y byddwn yn delio â’r gwir resymau dros dlodi plant ledled Cymru.

In summary, I welcome the level of accessibility that the commissioner has brought to his office, offering contact and information in a range of formats and a bilingual website. What I now want to see is a concerted effort by the commissioner to further increase public awareness of his team’s work across Wales over the next year. The report mentions 8,000 seconds of English and Welsh broadcast coverage, which is just over two hours. It also mentions over 450 English-language Twitter followers, although this has now increased to over 900. While recent increases must be welcomed, I am optimistic that these levels can be improved greatly over the next year.

I grynhoi, croesawaf y lefel o hygyrchedd a gyflwynodd y comisiynydd i’w swydd, gan gynnig cyswllt a gwybodaeth mewn amryw o ffyrdd a gwefan ddwyieithog. Yr hyn yr wyf am ei weld yn awr yw ymdrech gadarn gan y comisiynydd i gynyddu ymwybyddiaeth y cyhoedd ymhellach o waith ei dîm ar draws Cymru dros y flwyddyn nesaf. Mae’r adroddiad yn sôn am 8,000 eiliad o sylw darlledu Cymraeg a Saesneg, sef ychydig dros ddwy awr. Mae hefyd yn sôn am dros 450 o ddilynwyr Twitter Saesneg, er bod hyn bellach wedi cynyddu i dros 900. Er bod yn rhaid croesawu’r cynnydd diweddar, yr wyf yn obeithiol y gellir gwella’r lefelau hyn yn sylweddol dros y flwyddyn nesaf.

This important report makes a series of recommendations that this Welsh Government must take very seriously. I hope the Government will provide a robust and ambitious response and that, in a year’s time, the commissioner is not forced to highlight similar problems once again that we will discuss in the Chamber.

Mae’r adroddiad pwysig hwn yn gwneud cyfres o argymhellion mae’n rhaid i Lywodraeth Cymru eu cymryd o ddifrif. Gobeithio y bydd y Llywodraeth yn ymateb yn gadarn ac uchelgeisiol ac na fydd y comisiynydd ymhen blwyddyn yn cael ei orfodi i dynnu sylw at broblemau tebyg drachefn i ni eu trafod yn y Siambr.

Christine Chapman: I thank the Deputy Minister for her statement and opening remarks this afternoon. I also thank Members for their excellent contributions today. As Chair of the Children and Young People Committee, I was pleased to share in celebrating the tenth anniversary of the office of the Children’s Commissioner for Wales. Ten years on from the establishment of this post, Wales is certainly a much more child-friendly country. I welcome that, and I pay tribute to the children’s commissioner, because he acts almost as a conscience on children’s matters in Wales. It is uncomfortable sometimes, but he is nevertheless pointing us in the right direction. I pay tribute to him and to our previous children’s commissioner.

Christine Chapman: Diolch i’r Dirprwy Weinidog am ei datganiad a’i sylwadau agoriadol y prynhawn yma. Diolch hefyd i’r Aelodau am eu cyfraniadau rhagorol heddiw. Fel Cadeirydd y Pwyllgor Plant a Phobl Ifanc, yr wyf yn falch i rannu yn nathliad degfed pen-blwydd swyddfa Comisiynydd Plant Cymru. Ddeng mlynedd ar ôl sefydlu’r swydd hon, mae Cymru yn sicr yn wlad llawer mwy ystyriol o blant. Yr wyf yn croesawu hynny, ac yr wyf yn talu teyrnged i’r comisiynydd plant, gan ei fod yn gweithredu bron fel cydwybod ar faterion plant yng Nghymru. Mae’n anghyfforddus weithiau, ond serch hynny mae yn ein harwain ar y trywydd cywir. Talaf deyrnged iddo ef ac i’n comisiynydd plant blaenorol.

The commissioner presented his report to the Children and Young People Committee recently. Many of the remarks that I wanted to make have already been made. However, the main thrust of the report is to highlight what has been done, while also saying what more needs to be done. I therefore want to pick up on a few things. On advocacy services, I was concerned to hear that, despite the excellent work in the provision of advocacy services for children and young people, there are still looked-after children who do not know about advocacy services or how to access an advocate. Children and young people must be able to voice their concerns when things are going wrong. For that reason, I very much welcomed the commissioner’s announcement of a review of advocacy services for looked-after children and children in need.

Cyflwynodd y comisiynydd ei adroddiad i’r Pwyllgor Plant a Phobl Ifanc yn ddiweddar. Mae llawer o’r sylwadau yr oeddwn am eu gwneud wedi eu gwneud eisoes. Fodd bynnag, prif fyrdwn yr adroddiad yw tynnu sylw at yr hyn a wnaed, gan ddweud hefyd beth mwy sydd angen ei wneud. Felly, yr wyf am gyfeirio at rai pethau. O ran gwasanaethau eiriolaeth, yr oeddwn yn pryderu o glywed, er y gwaith ardderchog o ran darparu gwasanaethau eiriolaeth i blant a phobl ifanc, fod plant sy’n derbyn gofal sy’n dal ddim yn gwybod am wasanaethau eiriolaeth na sut i gael gafael ar eiriolwr. Mae’n rhaid i blant a phobl ifanc allu lleisio eu pryderon pan fydd pethau’n mynd o chwith. Oherwydd hynny, yr oeddwn yn croesawu yn fawr gyhoeddiad y comisiynydd am adolygiad o wasanaethau eiriolaeth i blant sy’n derbyn gofal a phlant mewn angen.

Another point that the commissioner raised with the committee was the need to support looked-after children and young people in the transition from care to independence. He told us that he had come across many looked-after children who, after leaving care, were living on people’s sofas or who considered themselves to be homeless. He emphasised the responsibility of local authorities’ children services for the continuation of care. There is a real need to support young people in these circumstances in securing tenancies and being there, if those tenancies break down, to help them get back into appropriate housing. Although these young people are teenagers, they are still very vulnerable. It was right that he brought that issue to our attention. He also highlighted the worrying inconsistencies in the provision of such support across Wales. Therefore, this is again another important area that the Welsh Government needs to consider.

Pwynt arall a gododd y comisiynydd gyda’r pwyllgor oedd bod angen cefnogi plant a phobl ifanc sy’n derbyn gofal yn y cyfnod pontio o ofal i annibyniaeth. Dywedodd wrthym iddo ddod ar draws llawer o blant a oedd yn derbyn gofal a oedd, wedi gadael gofal, yn byw ar soffas pobl neu a oedd yn ystyried eu hunain yn ddigartref. Pwysleisiodd mai cyfrifoldeb gwasanaethau plant awdurdodau lleol oedd parhau â’r gofal. Mae gwir angen cefnogi pobl ifanc yn yr amgylchiadau hyn wrth sicrhau tenantiaethau a bod ar gael, os yw’r tenantiaethau hynny yn mynd ar chwâl, i’w helpu i ddychwelyd i lety priodol. Er bod y bobl ifanc yn eu harddegau, maent yn dal i fod yn agored iawn i niwed. Yr oedd yn iawn iddo ddwyn y mater hwnnw i’n sylw. Tynnodd sylw hefyd at yr anghysonderau sy’n peri pryder o ran darparu cymorth o’r fath ar draws Cymru. Felly, mae hyn eto yn faes pwysig arall y mae angen i Lywodraeth Cymru ei ystyried.

Like others here, I cannot miss the opportunity to raise the issue of school toilets. As we have said, this is a recurring theme in the commissioner’s annual report. It is alarming that, seven years after the publication of ‘Lifting the Lid on the Nation’s School Toilets’, the commissioner is still raising concerns about the state of school toilets. I welcome the fact that the Welsh Government has now produced guidance for governing bodies, headteachers and local authorities, but I share his concerns that progress seems to be rather slow. I do not think that there is an excuse. It is not just about funding; it is sometimes about the lack of political priority given to young people. It is almost like saying, ‘You young people don’t matter’. If the will is there, things can change. I think that it is about a lack of political priority given to this by local authorities. This affects our young people greatly and on a daily basis and it has to change.

Fel eraill yma, ni allaf beidio â sôn am doiledau ysgol. Fel yr ydym wedi dweud, mae hon yn thema gyson yn adroddiadau blynyddol y comisiynydd. Mae’n frawychus, saith mlynedd ar ôl cyhoeddi ‘Codi’r Clawr ar Doiledau Ysgol y Genedl’, fod y comisiynydd yn dal i godi pryderon am gyflwr toiledau ysgol. Croesawaf fod Llywodraeth Cymru bellach wedi cynhyrchu canllawiau i gyrff llywodraethu, penaethiaid ysgol ac awdurdodau lleol, ond rhannaf ei bryderon yr ymddengys bod cynnydd braidd yn araf. Nid wyf yn credu bod esgus. Nid mater o gyllid yn unig ydyw; weithiau, mater ydyw o ddiffyg blaenoriaeth wleidyddol i bobl ifanc. Mae bron fel dweud, ‘Bobl ifanc, nid ydych yn bwysig’. Os yw’r ewyllys yno, gall pethau newid. Credaf ei fod yn ymwneud â’r diffyg blaenoriaeth wleidyddol a roddir i hyn gan awdurdodau lleol. Mae hyn yn effeithio ar ein pobl ifanc yn fawr bob dydd ac mae’n rhaid iddo newid.

Finally, as others have done, I want to mention child poverty. We have the statistics and we all know how bad they are: 14 per cent of children in Wales are living not just in poverty, but in severe poverty. In that category of poverty we are talking about children and adults living in households that are lacking necessities, such as a fridge, because they cannot afford them. I know that some Members—Mark Isherwood, for example—said that this is a wake-up call to the Welsh Government. I agree, but it is also a wake-up call for the UK Government with regard to its cuts. For many of our children and families in Wales, these are desperate times as a result of those cuts.

Yn olaf, fel eraill, yr wyf am sôn am dlodi plant. Gwyddom am yr ystadegau a pha mor wael ydynt: mae 14 y cant o blant yng Nghymru yn byw nid yn unig mewn tlodi, ond mewn tlodi difrifol. Yn y categori hwnnw o dlodi yr ydym yn sôn am blant ac oedolion sy’n byw mewn cartrefi sydd yn brin o’r pethau angenrheidiol, fel oergell, gan na allant eu fforddio. Gwn fod rhai Aelodau—Mark Isherwood, er enghraifft—yn dweud bod hwn yn ysgytwad i Lywodraeth Cymru. Cytunaf, ond mae hefyd yn ysgytwad i Lywodraeth y DU o ran ei thoriadau. I lawer o’n plant a theuluoedd yng Nghymru, mae’r rhain yn amseroedd enbyd o ganlyniad i’r toriadau hynny.

I agree with the commissioner that we have some excellent strategies and policies in Wales. We have taken the views of young people on board, and I am very proud of that. As the Deputy Minister said, it is about real participation by our young people. However, delivery is key, and that is the strategy that our Government is following. We can all think of programmes initiated by the Labour Government in our own areas that are making strong interventions to improve the life chances of all of our young people. We must maintain momentum if we are to see a sea change in the statistics.

Cytunaf â’r comisiynydd bod gennym ambell strategaeth a pholisi rhagorol yng Nghymru. Yr ydym wedi clywed a gwrando ar farn pobl ifanc, ac yr wyf yn falch iawn o hynny. Fel y dywedodd y Dirprwy Weinidog, mae’n ymwneud â’n pobl ifanc yn cymryd rhan go iawn. Fodd bynnag, mae cyflawni yn allweddol, a dyna yw strategaeth ein Llywodraeth. Gallwn i gyd feddwl am raglenni a gychwynnodd y Llywodraeth Lafur yn ein hardaloedd sy’n ymyrryd yn gryf i wella cyfleoedd bywyd ein holl bobl ifanc. Mae’n rhaid i ni gynnal momentwm os ydym am weld newid mawr yn yr ystadegau.

5.15 p.m.

Jenny Rathbone: There have been many important contributions to this debate. I particularly welcome the Deputy Minister’s statement about the important role that we are playing in Wales in introducing a rights-based agenda for children in legislation, which I regard as path-breaking and very important. I was somewhat puzzled by the comments of Mark Isherwood that, somehow, people on this side of the Chamber need to wake up to the challenges posed by child poverty. I speak as the Member for Cardiff Central, which has, within the Pentwyn ward, one super output area, which is now the highest for child poverty, not only in Cardiff but in the whole of Wales. Therefore, we are fully awake to the problems and challenges we face as we try to mitigate the worst effects of child poverty in the face of the huge cuts that have been disproportionately imposed upon children and women by the UK coalition Government.

Jenny Rathbone: Bu llawer o gyfraniadau pwysig i’r ddadl hon. Croesawaf yn arbennig ddatganiad y Dirprwy Weinidog am y rôl bwysig yr ydym yn ei chwarae yng Nghymru o ran cyflwyno mewn deddfwriaeth agenda sy’n seiliedig ar hawliau i blant, sy’n torri tir newydd ac yn bwysig iawn. Cefais fy nrysu braidd gan sylwadau Mark Isherwood bod angen i bobl ar yr ochr hon i’r Siambr ddeffro i’r heriau a ddaw yn sgîl tlodi plant. Yr wyf yn siarad fel yr Aelod dros Ganol Caerdydd, sydd ag un ardal cynnyrch ehangach, o fewn ward Pentwyn, sydd bellach yr uchaf o ran tlodi plant, nid yn unig yng Nghaerdydd ond Cymru gyfan. Felly, rydym yn gwbl effro i’r problemau a’r heriau sy’n ein hwynebu wrth i ni geisio lliniaru effeithiau gwaethaf tlodi plant yn wyneb y toriadau enfawr ac anghymesur a osodwyd ar blant a menywod gan Lywodraeth glymblaid y DU.

Mark Isherwood: In my speech I stated that Save the Children had said that these figures must act as a wake-up call. I was not speaking personally, although clearly I endorse its comments.

Mark Isherwood: Yn fy araith, dywedais bod Achub y Plant wedi dweud bod yn rhaid i’r ffigurau ein deffro i’r broblem. Nid oeddwn yn siarad yn bersonol, er fy mod yn amlwg yn ategu ei sylwadau.

Jenny Rathbone: Thank you for that clarification. We have to remember that the Fawcett Society, the Institute for Fiscal Studies and many other organisations have highlighted this particular issue, which is something you might want to feed back to the UK Government. On a specific issue that is in the children’s commissioner report, on page 17, a case study about child protection is highlighted, which raises concern about a worrying gap in the system designed to protect children. This gap concerns parents who have harmed their children, who have had their children removed in care proceedings in the family court, but have not subsequently been subject to a criminal prosecution in the criminal court. Such people would not find their way onto the safeguarding register. That means that those families could move, either within Wales or to other parts of the UK, and not be detected. They could have another child and no-one would know that they had previously abused a child and so on. I have endeavoured to find out how prevalent the example in that case study is. I have not yet been able to do so. I am confident that by the end of March, when the Government will come back and give a formal response to the children’s commissioner’s report, we will have got to the bottom of this matter. Is it a one-in-a-million example or is it an issue that is driving a coach and horses through the safeguarding arrangements? This is what we need to have clarified. I am sure that the Minister will address that.

Jenny Rathbone: Diolch am yr eglurhad hwnnw. Rhaid i ni gofio bod Cymdeithas Fawcett, y Sefydliad Astudiaethau Cyllid a nifer o sefydliadau eraill wedi tynnu sylw at y mater penodol hwn, sy’n rhywbeth efallai y byddwch am roi gwybod i Lywodraeth y DU amdano. Ar fater penodol sydd yn adroddiad y comisiynydd plant, ar dudalen 17, mae astudiaeth achos am amddiffyn plant yn cael ei amlygu, sy’n codi pryder am fwlch pryderus yn y system a luniwyd i amddiffyn plant. Mae’r bwlch hwn yn ymwneud â rhieni sydd wedi niweidio eu plant, lle mae eu plant wedi cael eu cymryd oddi arnynt mewn achosion gofal yn y llys teulu, ond nid ydynt wedi wynebu erlyniad troseddol yn y llys troseddol wedi hynny. Ni fyddai pobl o’r fath yn ymddangos ar y gofrestr diogelu. Golyga hynny y gallai’r teuluoedd hynny symud, o fewn Cymru neu i rannau eraill o’r DU, heb gael eu canfod. Gallent gael plentyn arall ac fyddai neb yn gwybod eu bod wedi cam-drin plentyn o’r blaen, ac yn y blaen. Rwyf wedi ceisio canfod pa mor gyffredin yw’r enghraifft yn yr astudiaeth achos honno. Nid wyf wedi dod o hyd i’r ateb eto. Yr wyf yn hyderus, erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth, pan fydd y Llywodraeth yn dod yn ôl ac yn rhoi ymateb ffurfiol i adroddiad y comisiynydd plant, y byddwn wedi cyrraedd gwraidd y mater hwn. A yw’n enghraifft prin iawn neu a yw’n rhywbeth sy’n gwneud smonach o’r trefniadau diogelu? Mae angen i ni gael eglurhad am hynny. Yr wyf yn siŵr y bydd y Gweinidog yn ymdrin â hynny.

In many other aspects, the work that is being done by the Government is to be welcomed, in particular, the national safeguarding board for children and adults. It is all too often we look at children without looking at the adults in their lives, and we look at adults who are in difficulties without asking what the impact is on the children in their lives. It is hugely important that we have this national safeguarding board that looks across the board at adults and children. We are making a huge amount of progress in this area. I welcome the work of the children’s commissioner.

Mewn llawer o agweddau eraill, mae’r gwaith sy’n cael ei wneud gan y Llywodraeth i’w groesawu, yn arbennig y bwrdd diogelu cenedlaethol ar gyfer plant ac oedolion. Yn rhy aml, rydym yn edrych ar blant heb edrych ar yr oedolion yn eu bywydau, ac yr ydym yn edrych ar oedolion sydd mewn trafferthion heb ofyn beth yw’r effaith ar y plant yn eu bywydau. Mae’n hynod bwysig fod gennym y bwrdd diogelu cenedlaethol hwn sy’n edrych yn ehangach ar oedolion a phlant. Rydym yn gwneud llawer iawn o gynnydd yn y maes hwn. Yr wyf yn croesawu gwaith y comisiynydd plant.

Kenneth Skates: I welcome this year’s annual report by the Children’s Commissioner for Wales. In the 10 years that the office has been in existence, its work, principally through the two commissioners, has led to significant improvements in a rights-based and evidence-based approach to children’s policy-making in Wales. Looking at the history of these annual reports over the last decade, a wider theme has arisen consistently. Serious problems can arise in the lives of our young children at any time.

Kenneth Skates: Croesawaf adroddiad blynyddol Comisiynydd Plant Cymru eleni. Yn y 10 mlynedd ers sefydlu’r swydd, mae ei waith, yn bennaf drwy’r ddau gomisiynydd, wedi arwain at welliannau sylweddol yn y dull seiliedig ar hawliau ac ar sail tystiolaeth i lunio polisïau yng Nghymru i blant. O edrych ar hanes yr adroddiadau blynyddol hyn yn y degawd diwethaf, mae thema ehangach wedi codi yn gyson. Gall broblemau difrifol ddigwydd unrhyw bryd ym mywydau ein plant ifanc.

Research in the report has highlighted that there was a 72 per cent increase this year in the number of social service related cases brought to the attention of the children’s commissioner. Many of these cases relate to older children, foster placements of teenagers in care or problems in the lives of youngsters leaving care. This is important because much of the talk that we have heard with regard to children’s policy in Wales and the UK over the last few years rightly relates to the need to give priority to early years intervention programmes. The case for earlier intervention and the role of an active state in the lives of young people is proven beyond doubt, helping avoid more complicated social problems later in life. However, equal recognition, space in political debate, and ultimately budgetary support should be given to the needs and problems of vulnerable teenagers, as well as those under the age of three. Behind the bare statistics quoted in debates such as this one exists a plethora of stories, broken lives and unfulfilled potential. Many of these issues arise for the first time during teenage years: the 14-year-old girl who has been in care since she was three, who is unable to settle with her foster parents and is facing a fourth carer in 18 months; the 13-year-old who spends most of her time looking after her disabled mum, missing school and leisure time; or the 15-year-old girl groomed for sex and now selling her body because she knows no other life. Research by the Prison Reform Trust has shown that young people with learning disabilities or mental health problems are over-represented in the youth justice system, leading to significant costs to the state for dealing with more complex issues later in life. We need, therefore, to develop a coherent narrative that connects a need to intervene earlier in a child’s life with an equal need to focus on problems that emerge later down the line.

Dengys ymchwil yn yr adroddiad bod cynnydd eleni o 72 y cant yn nifer yr achosion gwasanaethau cymdeithasol a ddygwyd i sylw’r comisiynydd plant. Mae llawer o’r achosion hyn yn ymwneud â phlant hŷn, lleoliadau maeth pobl ifanc mewn gofal sydd yn eu harddegau neu broblemau ym mywydau pobl ifanc sy’n gadael gofal. Mae hyn yn bwysig gan fod llawer o’r hyn a glywsom am bolisi plant yng Nghymru ac yn y DU yn ystod y blynyddoedd diwethaf, yn briodol, yn ymwneud â’r angen i roi blaenoriaeth i raglenni ymyrraeth yn y blynyddoedd cynnar. Mae’r ddadl dros ymyrryd yn gynt a rôl gwladwriaeth weithredol ym mywydau pobl ifanc wedi ei phrofi tu hwnt i amheuaeth, gan helpu i osgoi problemau cymdeithasol mwy cymhleth yn ddiweddarach. Fodd bynnag, dylid rhoi yr un gydnabyddiaeth, yr un cyfle mewn dadleuon gwleidyddol, a’r un gefnogaeth gyllidol yn y pen draw i ddelio ag anghenion a phroblemau pobl ifanc yn eu harddegau sy’n agored i niwed, yn ogystal â phlant o dan dair oed. Y tu ôl i’r ystadegau moel a ddyfynnir mewn dadleuon fel hyn mae llu o straeon, bywydau ar chwâl a photensial heb ei wireddu. Mae llawer o’r problemau hyn yn digwydd am y tro cyntaf yn ystod yr arddegau: y ferch 14-mlwydd-oed a fu mewn gofal ers yn dair oed, sy’n methu â setlo gyda’i rhieni maeth ac yn debyg o gael pedwerydd gofalwr mewn 18 mis; y ferch 13-mlwydd-oed sy’n treulio’r rhan fwyaf o’i hamser yn gofalu am ei mam anabl, gan golli amser ysgol a hamdden; neu’r ferch 15-mlwydd-oed y cam-fanteisiwyd arni’n rhywiol sydd bellach yn gwerthu ei chorff gan nad yw’n gwybod am unrhyw fywyd arall. Dengys ymchwil gan yr Ymddiriedolaeth Diwygio Carchardai bod gormod o bobl ifanc ag anableddau dysgu neu broblemau iechyd meddwl yn y system cyfiawnder ieuenctid, gan greu costau sylweddol i’r wladwriaeth ar gyfer delio â materion mwy cymhleth yn hwyrach ymlaen. Mae angen, felly, datblygu naratif cydlynol sy’n cysylltu’r angen i ymyrryd yn gynharach ym mywyd plentyn gyda’r un angen i ganolbwyntio ar broblemau sy’n dod i’r amlwg yn hwyrach ymlaen.

A subtle overemphasis on early years only as a solution risks fuelling the diversion of resources away from teenagers and young adults to tackle problems in their lives and avoid widespread social reproduction. In a climate of budget cutbacks and rising social service referrals, as the children’s commissioner has highlighted, we must do all that we can to safeguard funding for child protection services. However, this must not come at the expense of provision for teenagers and young people. Structural support for children’s services should not be driven solely by the logic of cost effectiveness to justify early years interventions, as this risks failing to recognise the importance of interventions up to the age of 18 and beyond. Minister, I urge you to ensure that the message of better co-ordination of services contained in this year’s report is heeded, so that we can see progress on this agenda and implement the principles outlined in the ‘Everybody’s Business’ strategy.

Mae gorbwyslais cynnil ar ddim ond y blynyddoedd cynnar yn golygu fod perygl dargyfeirio adnoddau i ffwrdd o blant yn eu harddegau ac oedolion ifanc i fynd i’r afael â phroblemau yn eu bywydau ac osgoi atgynhyrchu cymdeithasol eang. Mewn hinsawdd o doriadau cyllideb a chynnydd yn y nifer o atgyfeiriadau i’r gwasanaethau cymdeithasol, fel y tanlinellodd y comisiynydd plant, mae’n rhaid i ni wneud popeth o fewn ein gallu i ddiogelu cyllid i wasanaethau amddiffyn plant. Fodd bynnag, ni ddylai hyn fod ar draul y ddarpariaeth i blant yn eu harddegau a phobl ifanc. Ni ddylai cefnogaeth strwythurol i wasanaethau plant fod ar sail rhesymeg cost-effeithiolrwydd yn unig i gyfiawnhau ymyriadau blynyddoedd cynnar, gan fod perygl na fydd hyn yn cydnabod pwysigrwydd ymyriadau hyd at 18 oed a thu hwnt. Weinidog, yr wyf yn eich annog i sicrhau bod y neges yn adroddiad eleni bod angen cydgysylltu gwasanaethau yn well yn cael ei gymryd o ddifrif, fel y gallwn weld cynnydd ar yr agenda hwn a gweithredu’r egwyddorion a amlinellir yn y strategaeth ‘Busnes Pawb’.

The Deputy Minister for Children and Social Services (Gwenda Thomas): I thank Members for their comments, all of which I believe have been made sincerely. I note that comments have been made across portfolios, across public bodies and on non-devolved matters. It is not, therefore, my intention to comment on individual contributions. The Assembly deserves, and will get, a full and comprehensive response to all points made by the children’s commissioner and by Members in the Chamber this afternoon. I must, however, comment on one issue in the report that I am passionate about, a passion that is shared by Members, namely child poverty. I want to make it clear that our ability to reduce poverty in Wales is clearly dependent on actions taken by the UK Government, particularly in non-devolved areas such as tax and welfare benefits.

Y Dirprwy Weinidog Plant a Gwasanaethau Cymdeithasol (Gwenda Thomas): Diolch i’r Aelodau am eu sylwadau, a gwnaed pob un ohonynt yn fy marn i yn ddiffuant. Nodaf fod y sylwadau wedi cael eu gwneud ar draws portffolios, ar draws cyrff cyhoeddus ac ar faterion sydd heb eu datganoli. Nid wyf, felly, yn bwriadu gwneud sylwadau ar gyfraniadau unigol. Mae’r Cynulliad yn haeddu, a bydd yn ei gael, ymateb llawn a chynhwysfawr i’r holl bwyntiau a wnaed gan y comisiynydd plant a chan Aelodau yn y Siambr y prynhawn yma. Rhaid i mi, fodd bynnag, sôn am un mater yn yr adroddiad yr wyf yn angerddol amdano, fel ag y mae Aelodau, sef tlodi plant. Yr wyf am ei gwneud yn glir bod ein gallu i leihau tlodi yng Nghymru yn dibynnu ar y camau a gymerir gan Lywodraeth y DU, yn enwedig mewn meysydd nad ydynt wedi eu datganoli, megis budd-daliadau treth a lles.

There are a number of things that we can do to tackle poverty in Wales. While we are taking this work forward in a climate characterised by worsening job situations and fiscal tightening, we remain committed to the 2020 targets. We know that too many children’s childhoods are blighted by poverty. Living in poverty is another reason why some children grow up too fast, are forced to deal with the harsh realities of life and are deprived of some of the basic aspects of childhood that many take for granted. There is no higher priority for us than ensuring that children and young people whose lives are affected by poverty have the same chances in life as everyone else in Wales. That is why we have made tackling child poverty one of our central aims. To support this, we have developed programmes such as Flying Start, Families First and integrated family support services.

Mae sawl peth y gallwn ei wneud i fynd i’r afael â thlodi yng Nghymru. Er ein bod yn gwneud y gwaith hwn mewn hinsawdd lle mae swyddi a chyllid yn prinhau, rydym yn dal i lynu at dargedau 2020. Gwyddom bod plentyndod gormod o blant yn cael ei ddifetha gan dlodi. Mae byw mewn tlodi yn rheswm arall pam fod rhai plant yn tyfu i fyny yn rhy gyflym, yn cael eu gorfodi i ddelio â realiti llym bywyd ac yn cael eu hamddifadu o elfennau sylfaenol plentyndod mae llawer yn eu cymryd yn ganiataol. Ein blaenoriaeth fawr yw sicrhau bod plant a phobl ifanc y mae eu bywydau yn cael eu heffeithio gan dlodi yn cael yr un cyfleoedd bywyd â phawb arall yng Nghymru. Dyna pam fod mynd i’r afael â thlodi plant yn un o’n hamcanion canolog. I gefnogi hyn, rydym wedi datblygu rhaglenni fel Dechrau’n Deg, Teuluoedd yn Gyntaf a gwasanaethau integredig cymorth i deuluoedd.

The Children and Families (Wales) Measure 2010 places a statutory duty on public bodies to tackle child poverty. It takes a Welsh approach to tackling child poverty and social exclusion for some of the most vulnerable and disadvantaged children and families in Wales. It enables us to provide support to those families and children in greatest need. Our programme for government sets out the key actions that we are taking to address these issues and to improve the skills, health and educational outcomes of children, young people and families living in poverty. Ministers are developing a single anti-poverty action plan, and have agreed to establish an anti-poverty programme board, which will monitor progress in delivering the plan across the Welsh Government. There is a political will and vision in Wales that is ultimately steering the agenda for children and young people. The Welsh Government is fully committed to it and we will continue to work with organisations such as the Children’s Commissioner for Wales to drive this forward.

Mae’r Mesur Plant a Theuluoedd (Cymru) 2010 yn gosod dyletswydd statudol ar gyrff cyhoeddus i fynd i’r afael â thlodi plant. Mae’n cymryd ymagwedd Gymreig i fynd i’r afael â thlodi plant ac allgau cymdeithasol ar gyfer rhai o’r plant a’r teuluoedd mwyaf agored i niwed a difreintiedig yng Nghymru. Mae’n ein galluogi i ddarparu cymorth i’r teuluoedd a’r plant hynny sydd fwyaf ei angen.  Mae ein rhaglen ar gyfer llywodraeth yn nodi’r camau allweddol yr ydym yn eu cymryd i fynd i’r afael â’r materion hyn ac i wella sgiliau, iechyd a chanlyniadau addysgol plant, pobl ifanc a theuluoedd sy’n byw mewn tlodi. Mae Gweinidogion yn datblygu un cynllun gweithredu ar gyfer atal tlodi, ac maent wedi cytuno i sefydlu bwrdd rhaglen atal tlodi a fydd yn monitro’r cynnydd wrth gyflawni’r cynllun ar draws Llywodraeth Cymru. Mae yna ewyllys a gweledigaeth wleidyddol yng Nghymru sydd yn y pen draw yn llywio’r agenda ar gyfer plant a phobl ifanc. Mae Llywodraeth Cymru yn gwbl ymroddedig iddo a byddwn yn dal ati i weithio gyda sefydliadau megis Comisiynydd Plant Cymru i fwrw’r maen i’r wal.

In closing, I would once again like to state that a full and detailed response to the specific points raised by the Commissioner and by Members today will be provided by the end of March.

Wrth gloi, hoffwn eto ddweud y bydd ymateb llawn a manwl i’r pwyntiau penodol a godwyd gan y Comisiynydd a chan Aelodau heddiw yn cael ei roi erbyn diwedd mis Mawrth.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: The proposal is to agree amendment 1. Are there any objections? I see that there are. Therefore, I defer all voting under this item until voting time. We will proceed straight to the votes. Are there three Members who wish for the bell to be rung? I see that there are not.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Y cynnig yw cytuno ar welliant 1. A oes gwrthwynebiad? Gwelaf fod. Felly, gohiriaf bob pleidlais o dan yr eitem hon tan y cyfnod pleidleisio. Awn ymlaen yn syth i’r pleidleisiau. A oes tri Aelod sy’n dymuno i’r gloch gael ei chanu? Gwelaf nad oes.

Gohiriwyd y pleidleisio tan y cyfnod pleidleisio.

Voting deferred until voting time.

Cyfnod Pleidleisio
Voting Time

Cynnig NDM4835: O blaid 45, Ymatal 11, Yn erbyn 0.
Motion NDM4835: For 45, Abstain 11, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce
Williams, Kirsty

Ymataliodd yr Aelodau canlynol:
The following Members abstained:

Davies, Jocelyn
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion agreed.

Gwelliant 1 i NDM4836: O blaid 28, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 28.
Amendment 1 to NDM4836: For 28, Abstain 0, Against 28.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Isherwood, Mark
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Ramsay, Nick
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce

Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Dirprwy Lywydd ei bleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.20(ii).

As there was an equality of votes, the Deputy Presiding Officer used his casting vote in accordance with Standing Order No. 6.20(ii).

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment not agreed.

Gwelliant 2 i NDM4836: O blaid 28, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 28.
Amendment 2 to NDM4836: For 28, Abstain 0, Against 28.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Isherwood, Mark
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Ramsay, Nick
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce

Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Dirprwy Lywydd ei bleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.20(ii).

As there was an equality of votes, the Deputy Presiding Officer used his casting vote in accordance with Standing Order No. 6.20(ii).

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment not agreed.

Gwelliant 3 i NDM4836: O blaid 28, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 28.
Amendment 3 to NDM4836: For 28, Abstain 0, Against 28.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Isherwood, Mark
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Ramsay, Nick
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce

Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Dirprwy Lywydd ei bleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.20(ii).

As there was an equality of votes, the Deputy Presiding Officer used his casting vote in accordance with Standing Order No. 6.20(ii).

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment not agreed.

Gwelliant 4 i NDM4836: O blaid 28, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 28.
Amendment 4 to NDM4836: For 28, Abstain 0, Against 28.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol yn erbyn:
The following Members voted against:

Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Graham, William
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Isherwood, Mark
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Ramsay, Nick
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Keith
Drakeford, Mark
Evans, Rebecca
Gething, Vaughan
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
James, Julie
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Price, Gwyn R.
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Watson, Joyce

Gan fod nifer y pleidleisiau yn gyfartal, defnyddiodd y Dirprwy Lywydd ei bleidlais fwrw yn unol â Rheol Sefydlog Rhif 6.20(ii).

As there was an equality of votes, the Deputy Presiding Officer used his casting vote in accordance with Standing Order No. 6.20(ii).

Gwrthodwyd y gwelliant.
Amendment not agreed.

Cynnig NDM4836: O blaid 56, Ymatal 0, Yn erbyn 0.
Motion NDM4836: For 56, Abstain 0, Against 0.

Pleidleisiodd yr Aelodau canlynol o blaid:
The following Members voted for:

Andrews, Leighton
Antoniw, Mick
Asghar, Mohammad
Black, Peter
Burns, Angela
Chapman, Christine
Cuthbert, Jeff
Davies, Alun
Davies, Andrew R.T.
Davies, Byron
Davies, Jocelyn
Davies, Keith
Davies, Paul
Davies, Suzy
Drakeford, Mark
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord
Evans, Rebecca
Finch-Saunders, Janet
George, Russell
Gething, Vaughan
Graham, William
Gregory, Janice
Griffiths, John
Griffiths, Lesley
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws
Hedges, Mike
Hutt, Jane
Isherwood, Mark
James, Julie
Jenkins, Bethan
Jones, Alun Ffred
Jones, Ann
Jones, Carwyn
Jones, Elin
Jones, Ieuan Wyn
Lewis, Huw
Mewies, Sandy
Morgan, Julie
Neagle, Lynne
Parrott, Eluned
Powell, William
Price, Gwyn R.
Ramsay, Nick
Rathbone, Jenny
Rees, David
Roberts, Aled
Sandbach, Antoinette
Sargeant, Carl
Skates, Kenneth
Thomas, Gwenda
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn
Thomas, Simon
Watson, Joyce
Whittle, Lindsay
Williams, Kirsty
Wood, Leanne

Derbyniwyd y cynnig.
Motion agreed.

Y Dirprwy Lywydd: Dyna ddiwedd ein trafodion am heddiw.

The Deputy Presiding Officer: That brings today’s proceedings to a close.

Daeth y cyfarfod i ben am 5.29 p.m.
The meeting ended at 5.29 p.m.

Aelodau a’u Pleidiau
Members and their Parties

Andrews, Leighton (Llafur – Labour)
Antoniw, Mick (Llafur – Labour)
Asghar, Mohammad (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
Black, Peter (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats)
Burns, Angela (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
Butler, Rosemary (Llafur – Labour)
Chapman, Christine (Llafur – Labour)
Cuthbert, Jeff (Llafur – Labour)
Davies, Alun (Llafur – Labour)
Davies, Andrew R.T. (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
Davies, Byron (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
Davies, Jocelyn (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)
Davies, Keith (Llafur – Labour)
Davies, Paul (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
Davies, Suzy (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
Drakeford, Mark (Llafur – Labour)
Elis-Thomas, Yr Arglwydd/Lord (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)
Evans, Rebecca (Llafur – Labour)
Finch-Saunders, Janet (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
George, Russell (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
Gething, Vaughan (Llafur – Labour)
Graham, William (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
Gregory, Janice (Llafur – Labour)
Griffiths, John (Llafur – Labour)
Griffiths, Lesley (Llafur – Labour)
Gruffydd, Llyr Huws (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)
Hart, Edwina (Llafur – Labour)
Hedges, Mike (Llafur – Labour)
Hutt, Jane (Llafur – Labour)
Isherwood, Mark (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
James, Julie (Llafur – Labour)
Jenkins, Bethan (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)
Jones, Alun Ffred (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)
Jones, Ann (Llafur – Labour)
Jones, Carwyn (Llafur – Labour)
Jones, Elin (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)
Jones, Ieuan Wyn (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)
Lewis, Huw (Llafur – Labour)
Melding, David (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
Mewies, Sandy (Llafur – Labour)
Millar, Darren (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
Morgan, Julie (Llafur – Labour)
Neagle, Lynne (Llafur – Labour)
Parrott, Eluned (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats)
Powell, William (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats)
Price, Gwyn R. (Llafur – Labour)
Ramsay, Nick (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
Rathbone, Jenny (Llafur – Labour)
Rees, David (Llafur – Labour)
Roberts, Aled (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats)
Sandbach, Antoinette (Ceidwadwyr Cymreig – Welsh Conservatives)
Sargeant, Carl (Llafur – Labour)
Skates, Kenneth (Llafur – Labour)
Thomas, Gwenda (Llafur – Labour)
Thomas, Rhodri Glyn (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)
Thomas, Simon (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)
Watson, Joyce (Llafur – Labour)
Whittle, Lindsay (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)
Williams, Kirsty (Democratiaid Rhyddfrydol Cymru – Welsh Liberal Democrats)
Wood, Leanne (Plaid Cymru – The Party of Wales)